Chillers - Bigger HP more savings? not true ..

[BarraCuda™]

Many of us believed that the higher the horsepower rating (HP), the shorter the operation time and the lower the cost. The HP ratings can be the compressor rating only or the overall rating.


Atman 1/2HP (overall) -compressor 1/4HP
Wattage 320watts

Artica 1/2HP (compressor) - overall 1.56HP
Wattage 616watts


Assuming artica chiller runs 6hrs/day and atman 12hrs/day..

Artica -
2.8A X 220V = 616watts
(616watts x 6hrs x 30 days)/1000 = 110.88kWh
110.88kWh x $0.1508/kWh = $16.72/month

Atman
(320watts x 12hrs x 30 days)/1000 =115.2kWh
115.2kWh x $0.1508/kWh = $17.37/month

Difference in running cost
$17.37 - $16.72 = $0.65 savings/month.

Cost of chiller
Atman = $600
Artica = $1700

Difference in chiller cost
$1700 - $600 = $1100

Break even period
$1100 / $0.65/month = 1692 months = 141years!

__________________________________________________ __________

Assuming artica chiller runs 6hrs/day and atman 24hrs/day..

Atman running cost
$17.37 X 2 = $34.74/month

Difference in running cost
$34.74 - 16.72 = $18.02/month

Break even period
$1100 / $18.02/month = 61months = 5years!

Basically it means that you will need at least 5yrs to recover the cost on the purchase of the artica chiller VS its operating efficiency. (On the assumption that the Atman chiller is very inefficient (running non stop for 5years)

You do the maths, Artica chiller have an overall rating of 1.56HP and Atman with 0.5HP. So having a bigger chiller doesnt mean more cost savings ...

(Note. This is based on the assumption that the Atman chiller cooling a 190g tank with 2x250watts MH + 2x24watts T5 + 130watts external pump.)

[nim75sg]

IMO, using chiller output capacity (BTU) rather than HP is a more realistic and reasonable comparison.

[devilfire]

sad enough, many leading brands r not true rated..

wat i know...

resun cl-650 - 650W
PC 1/2 hp - abt 420W

[ReDDeviLs]

nice comparison there...
looking for a quiet and power saving chiller for my 150gallon..
any recommandation?

[devilfire]

150G??? tat's big.

budget??

[ReDDeviLs]

erm..trying to save up,so see if i need to save up how much...but must be less power consuming as possible!

[devilfire]

think i'm not good 2 tell u which will suit ur preferrence, as i oni tried 2 b 4.

ruling out those x types(artica,teco..), majority of the rest r not true rated in terms of HP. examples r A***n, R*** **l**f, E****.........

i personally switch fr resun 2 pacific coo is simply b cos of how the chiller is built. i know it b cos i know the ppl behind it.

[ReDDeviLs]

oic,ok let other bros advise me in this..thanks bro.

[deep_end]

bro ReDDeviLs,

I don't know why it is that lots of S'poreans seem to like to use box chillers when split unit chillers are so much more efficient and cost-effective.

I seem to recall posting something along these lines sometime back, but here it is again.

What you need is a titanium drop-in coil, or a titanium heat exchanger - figure about S$350-400 for this for a 1/2HP unit. This can be coupled to anything from a 1/2HP to 1HP outdoor unit aircon compressor. This should be available easily and cheaply from the aircon shops, 2nd hand. Just get it serviced and the gas refilled. Here in Malaysia, a 2nd hand 1HP compressor is about RM400. Then get a digital controller and sensor, which costs about RM120-150 here, depending on make.

Then get an aircon contractor to hook up the whole thing for you, by connecting the copper tubing to the titanium coil, set up the controller properly and it's a go.

The cooling capacity? With the above config., you can easily cool a 2000 litre tank to 20C, without overworking it. On a smaller config of a 1/4HP coil combined to a 1/2HP compressor, the same 2000 litres of water takes 6 hours to cool from 27C to 25C, then turns off for 8 hours before the temp. reaches 27C again. Of course with smaller tanks, the on-off times are more frequent.

Another eg., with the 1HP + 1/2HP combination, a 5'X1.5'X2' tall tank takes 15 min. to cool from 27 to 25, and stops for 1 hour before kicking in again.

nice comparison there...
looking for a quiet and power saving chiller for my 150gallon..
any recommandation?

[slcw]

bro ReDDeviLs,

I don't know why it is that lots of S'poreans seem to like to use box chillers when split unit chillers are so much more efficient and cost-effective.

I seem to recall posting something along these lines sometime back, but here it is again.

What you need is a titanium drop-in coil, or a titanium heat exchanger - figure about S$350-400 for this for a 1/2HP unit. This can be coupled to anything from a 1/2HP to 1HP outdoor unit aircon compressor. This should be available easily and cheaply from the aircon shops, 2nd hand. Just get it serviced and the gas refilled. Here in Malaysia, a 2nd hand 1HP compressor is about RM400. Then get a digital controller and sensor, which costs about RM120-150 here, depending on make.

Then get an aircon contractor to hook up the whole thing for you, by connecting the copper tubing to the titanium coil, set up the controller properly and it's a go.

The cooling capacity? With the above config., you can easily cool a 2000 litre tank to 20C, without overworking it. On a smaller config of a 1/4HP coil combined to a 1/2HP compressor, the same 2000 litres of water takes 6 hours to cool from 27C to 25C, then turns off for 8 hours before the temp. reaches 27C again. Of course with smaller tanks, the on-off times are more frequent.

Another eg., with the 1HP + 1/2HP combination, a 5'X1.5'X2' tall tank takes 15 min. to cool from 27 to 25, and stops for 1 hour before kicking in again.


apparently that the way it goes in malaysia. i agree with deepend on split unit chillers.

unfortunately, i bought a chiller (CL280 resun) as i did not want to break a hole on the wall in my dad's living room.

[ReDDeviLs]

thanks alot bro deep_end! means that i get a smaller power chiller connect it to air-con compressor we uses for at home..to drive it?
am i right to say that?
if i were to get them from JB.. will that be cheaper compare to SG?

[BarraCuda™]

Hey deepend,

If you can source out the parts for us or even better build chillers using commercial aircon compressors, I will consider buying if the price is good! ;)

bro ReDDeviLs,

I don't know why it is that lots of S'poreans seem to like to use box chillers when split unit chillers are so much more efficient and cost-effective.

I seem to recall posting something along these lines sometime back, but here it is again.

What you need is a titanium drop-in coil, or a titanium heat exchanger - figure about S$350-400 for this for a 1/2HP unit. This can be coupled to anything from a 1/2HP to 1HP outdoor unit aircon compressor. This should be available easily and cheaply from the aircon shops, 2nd hand. Just get it serviced and the gas refilled. Here in Malaysia, a 2nd hand 1HP compressor is about RM400. Then get a digital controller and sensor, which costs about RM120-150 here, depending on make.

Then get an aircon contractor to hook up the whole thing for you, by connecting the copper tubing to the titanium coil, set up the controller properly and it's a go.

The cooling capacity? With the above config., you can easily cool a 2000 litre tank to 20C, without overworking it. On a smaller config of a 1/4HP coil combined to a 1/2HP compressor, the same 2000 litres of water takes 6 hours to cool from 27C to 25C, then turns off for 8 hours before the temp. reaches 27C again. Of course with smaller tanks, the on-off times are more frequent.

Another eg., with the 1HP + 1/2HP combination, a 5'X1.5'X2' tall tank takes 15 min. to cool from 27 to 25, and stops for 1 hour before kicking in again.

[Jeffrey74]

bro ReDDeviLs,

I don't know why it is that lots of S'poreans seem to like to use box chillers when split unit chillers are so much more efficient and cost-effective.

I seem to recall posting something along these lines sometime back, but here it is again.

What you need is a titanium drop-in coil, or a titanium heat exchanger - figure about S$350-400 for this for a 1/2HP unit. This can be coupled to anything from a 1/2HP to 1HP outdoor unit aircon compressor. This should be available easily and cheaply from the aircon shops, 2nd hand. Just get it serviced and the gas refilled. Here in Malaysia, a 2nd hand 1HP compressor is about RM400. Then get a digital controller and sensor, which costs about RM120-150 here, depending on make.

Then get an aircon contractor to hook up the whole thing for you, by connecting the copper tubing to the titanium coil, set up the controller properly and it's a go.

The cooling capacity? With the above config., you can easily cool a 2000 litre tank to 20C, without overworking it. On a smaller config of a 1/4HP coil combined to a 1/2HP compressor, the same 2000 litres of water takes 6 hours to cool from 27C to 25C, then turns off for 8 hours before the temp. reaches 27C again. Of course with smaller tanks, the on-off times are more frequent.

Another eg., with the 1HP + 1/2HP combination, a 5'X1.5'X2' tall tank takes 15 min. to cool from 27 to 25, and stops for 1 hour before kicking in again.
deep_end,

What you said about the performance of the split unit chillers are true. But 1 thing to consider is space in singapore. Most of us lived in HDB flats. I dont think anyone wants a compressor unit in their living room. I thought of the idea before. Unfortunately, I've to run a very long distance of copper pipes to the compressor in order to place the compressor unit in a well ventilated place. I gave up the idea in the end.

[spsman]

hi bro,
good analysis there with the costs. how abt the brand reliability factor?
shud a gd chiller last how many years?
back end service?

these were the questions i had when i bought my chiller.
currently using Dailace fish cooler. It is 1/3 horse power and 110 watts.
quite efficient for my 127 gallon tank.
i also think that MH has a role to play in power consumption as heat generated will incur Chiller Work OT.
but all in all, i think yor analysis is pretty clear and mathematical. thks . now i know how much i spent a month. $$$$
i guess it is part and parcel of the hobby.
b regds.

[ReDDeviLs]

after thinking abt bro deep_ends suggestion,i came to think that will it be much costly if we are using it in SG?
as a chiller we use is because its more energy saving than turning the aircon on.
if we were to use the aircon compressor..with chiller..will that be more expensive in terms of electric? as older aircon compressor consume more electric.

[BarraCuda™]

after thinking abt bro deep_ends suggestion,i came to think that will it be much costly if we are using it in SG?
as a chiller we use is because its more energy saving than turning the aircon on.
if we were to use the aircon compressor..with chiller..will that be more expensive in terms of electric? as older aircon compressor consume more electric.

yes, aircon compressors are much bigger than aquatic chillers so naturally they will consume more power

[devilfire]

i think majority of s'poreans wont mind paying a little bit more 2 save on tat little extra mile 2 work.
moreover, some chillers r fitted with extra functions like my pacific coo is fitted with low n high temp alarm.

[deep_end]

bro ReDDeviLs,

yes, we use exactly the same kind of outdoor compressor on a split-unit aircon. However, it may not be that easy finding a 1/2 or 3/4 HP compr. nowadays. You could ask your aircon technician to look for you though.

JB I can't really say, since prices there are generally higher than in KL. The prices I stated apply to KL.

thanks alot bro deep_end! means that i get a smaller power chiller connect it to air-con compressor we uses for at home..to drive it?
am i right to say that?
if i were to get them from JB.. will that be cheaper compare to SG?

[deep_end]

hey bro,

Of cos I can. Only thing is either you guys take a drive up here to KL and pick them up or I send them down to you. Building them is not viable since the compressor is gonna be outdoors anyway. They would best be assembled at your premises. But for the compressor, it's better to source them in s'pore since I don't think a car will be able to cram in so many units :p

Hey deepend,

If you can source out the parts for us or even better build chillers using commercial aircon compressors, I will consider buying if the price is good! ;)

[deep_end]

Jeff,

I think you have missed the point. The compressor sits outside the apartment, not indoors. That's why there's no noise and sound inside the apartment from the compressor, unlike boxed units.

The copper tubing is included in the price of installation of a typical aircon unit, and it should be so, for the chiller too. In most cases, the technicians use conduits or plastic white casings to enclose the copper so they're not so obvious.

deep_end,

What you said about the performance of the split unit chillers are true. But 1 thing to consider is space in singapore. Most of us lived in HDB flats. I dont think anyone wants a compressor unit in their living room. I thought of the idea before. Unfortunately, I've to run a very long distance of copper pipes to the compressor in order to place the compressor unit in a well ventilated place. I gave up the idea in the end.

[deep_end]

bro ReDDeviLs,

Not necessarily. Bottom line as far as consumption is concerned is the Wattage consumed, and the efficiency in BTU. If you use a 2nd hand boxed chiller, it would be as inefficient as a 2nd hand AC compressor. New versus new, it all boils down to wattage and BTU.

Bro Barra,

Yes, AC compressors are larger, but their BTU ratings are correspondingly higher, so they will work much shorter times than a smaller compressor. E.g, a 3/4HP compressor that pushes 6500 BTU will cool X litres of water in 1/4 the time of a boxed chiller that does 1625 BTU. Then look at the wattage consumed. If the 3/4HP is 560W and your boxed chiller is 140W, then it's the same.

after thinking abt bro deep_ends suggestion,i came to think that will it be much costly if we are using it in SG?
as a chiller we use is because its more energy saving than turning the aircon on.
if we were to use the aircon compressor..with chiller..will that be more expensive in terms of electric? as older aircon compressor consume more electric.

[Jeffrey74]

Jeff,

I think you have missed the point. The compressor sits outside the apartment, not indoors. That's why there's no noise and sound inside the apartment from the compressor, unlike boxed units.

The copper tubing is included in the price of installation of a typical aircon unit, and it should be so, for the chiller too. In most cases, the technicians use conduits or plastic white casings to enclose the copper so they're not so obvious.
deep_end,

Outside the apartment. Thats the main problem I faced when having a thought of an outdoor compressor. Singapore HDB do not allow you to install more than 1 aircon unit per household due to the power supply is very limited. We cant place the compressor at our corridors too. It'll obstruct neighbours passing by. Morever, our fire department will say not enough clearance for emergencies escape. Headache right?

[deep_end]

Jeffrey74,

Wah lau eh, so lecheh one ah? So during heat wave, everyone gotta cram into the same room to sleep ah? :eek:

deep_end,

Outside the apartment. Thats the main problem I faced when having a thought of an outdoor compressor. Singapore HDB do not allow you to install more than 1 aircon unit per household due to the power supply is very limited. We cant place the compressor at our corridors too. It'll obstruct neighbours passing by. Morever, our fire department will say not enough clearance for emergencies escape. Headache right?

[Jeffrey74]

Jeffrey74,

Wah lau eh, so lecheh one ah? So during heat wave, everyone gotta cram into the same room to sleep ah? :eek:
Not what you think lah. Meaning 1 compressor unit can be 1 to 1 ~ 1 to 4 split aircon unit. We still can enjoy aircon during heat waves.:p

[Tigger]

which is the best value for money chiller

[BarraCuda™]

which is the best value for money chiller
You pay for what you get .. good things dont come cheap. That will depends on yr system requirements.

[SGRay]

how about we compare resun 650-650W 1/4 hp and artica ra150 -150W 1/5 hp
the artica chiller is much much mroe efficient than the resun as artica chilelr are using technology superior to others. the btu of the artica chiller definitely beat resun or even teco of similat or same hp. but the wattage is so low... definitely will save much more..

[astro]

i tried that formula too when deciding on whic aircon to buy, inverter or not..
finally bought a non-inverter :p

[Jeffrey74]

i tried that formula too when deciding on whic aircon to buy, inverter or not..
finally bought a non-inverter :p
Can I know why you chose a non-inverter aircon instead?

[losmandy]

Has anyone Tong the atman 1/2hp chiller?

I believe one bro here has his tank crashed while he is away in Japan because the ATman chiller kon out :P The thermostat spoilt if I am not wrong.

Now you don't only pay for more efficient chiller, you pay for more reliable chiller. More reliable + more efficient.

After you tong the Atman 1/2hp, I am sure it draws much more than 320watts. The Artica 1/2hp draws around 660watts (tongED reading), this has not been corrected for power factor yet.


Many of us believed that the higher the horsepower rating (HP), the shorter the operation time and the lower the cost. The HP ratings can be the compressor rating only or the overall rating.


Atman 1/2HP (overall) -compressor 1/4HP
Wattage 320watts

Artica 1/2HP (compressor) - overall 1.56HP
Wattage 616watts


Assuming artica chiller runs 6hrs/day and atman 12hrs/day..

Artica -
2.8A X 220V = 616watts
(616watts x 6hrs x 30 days)/1000 = 110.88kWh
110.88kWh x $0.1508/kWh = $16.72/month

Atman
(320watts x 12hrs x 30 days)/1000 =115.2kWh
115.2kWh x $0.1508/kWh = $17.37/month

Difference in running cost
$17.37 - $16.72 = $0.65 savings/month.

Cost of chiller
Atman = $600
Artica = $1700

Difference in chiller cost
$1700 - $600 = $1100

Break even period
$1100 / $0.65/month = 1692 months = 141years!

__________________________________________________ __________

Assuming artica chiller runs 6hrs/day and atman 24hrs/day..

Atman running cost
$17.37 X 2 = $34.74/month

Difference in running cost
$34.74 - 16.72 = $18.02/month

Break even period
$1100 / $18.02/month = 61months = 5years!

Basically it means that you will need at least 5yrs to recover the cost on the purchase of the artica chiller VS its operating efficiency. (On the assumption that the Atman chiller is very inefficient (running non stop for 5years)

You do the maths, Artica chiller have an overall rating of 1.56HP and Atman with 0.5HP. So having a bigger chiller doesnt mean more cost savings ...

(Note. This is based on the assumption that the Atman chiller cooling a 190g tank with 2x250watts MH + 2x24watts T5 + 130watts external pump.)

[BarraCuda™]

Has anyone Tong the atman 1/2hp chiller?

I believe one bro here has his tank crashed while he is away in Japan because the ATman chiller kon out :P The thermostat spoilt if I am not wrong.

Now you don't only pay for more efficient chiller, you pay for more reliable chiller. More reliable + more efficient.

After you tong the Atman 1/2hp, I am sure it draws much more than 320watts. The Artica 1/2hp draws around 660watts (tongED reading), this has not been corrected for power factor yet.

I measured the ampere of atman 1/2HP, its indeed around 320watts

[losmandy]

I measured the ampere of atman 1/2HP, its indeed around 320watts

In this case this is using smaller compressor but I still wouldn't choose it because of the high failure rate. Maybe can buy 2 (1 for standby) in this case then much more safer.

Where's the 1/4hp artica/dailea??

[BarraCuda™]

In this case this is using smaller compressor but I still wouldn't choose it because of the high failure rate. Maybe can buy 2 (1 for standby) in this case then much more safer.

Where's the 1/4hp artica/dailea??

I think there is a batch with faulty thermostats, fortunately I got the better batch. The atman chiller is good for up to 4ft with moderate heat load.

[losmandy]

I think there is a batch with faulty thermostats, fortunately I got the better batch. The atman chiller is good for up to 4ft with moderate heat load.

is the current batch good? Any feedback on any failure? Looking for a standby chiller.

[BarraCuda™]

is the current batch good? Any feedback on any failure? Looking for a standby chiller.

I dont really know, its more like a gamble nowadays. My batch is the first batch that reached Singapore.