Need Advise on Sump Tank

[bonjour2]

Hello everyone , need a advice on Sump tank again. Okay , supposing if my overflow tube is 20mm , for a basic sump tank with a DSB Compartment , and only 1 Return Pump with attached to a Skimmer , say Weipro 2011 , what is the recommended power for pump eg, ????l/h I am afraid that the 20mm overflow tube is small , causing the pump to empty the water in sump faster than the overflow into the sump , at the same time worry that pump not strong enough for the skimmer? :confused:

[xiggie]

20 mm = 2 cm tube? thats small ..... think u need a bigger tube

[Navyblue]

Hi,

I think your worry should not be sump getting emptied, I believe before that your tank already overflowed.

The outflow doesnot rely on tube diameter alone, but also the head pressure at the outlet. On this I can not help to advice as it will depend on your situation.

If I'm not mistaken you are using a 3' tank? That way you need about 2000L/H of water exchange after head pressure, thus before head, assuming 50% loss of flow, it will be about 4000 L/H for the circulation.

If you need to divert this pump to a weipro 2011, it roughly need about 2000 L/H. Thus you need to have a pump that is 2000 + 4000 = 6000 L/H.

Of course I am oversimplifying the calculation here. I am not a hydraulic expert but I am aware that the flow addition will be complicated by the use of diversion and throttling valve.

I have one question for you, how is your tank drilled?

Good luck.

[devilfire]

ur main tk will not overflow if proper design n calculations is made.
think it would b better if u could give a really detailed one.
e.g.1) tk size(both)
2) distance between the overflow pipe/box 2 the top of the main tk.
3) where u gonna place ur skimmer
etc....

[bonjour2]

Hi everyone , thanks.
Basically , 1)the main tank size is 30" x 18" x 18"
sump tank size is 1.5ft by 1ft by 1ft

2) there is only one hole drilled 25mm on the left size bottom of tank and I have to get a pvc pipe to extend the length of the overflow pipe.(my tank overflow compartment is simlpy the pipe w/o the special overflow compartment like other tank)
3) Sump tank is basically a filter media compartment , a DSB Compartment and the return pump compartment. My idea is to connect a Weipro 2011 to the return pump , placed hanging on the main tank itself, which means that the final discharge of the water to main tank is through skimmer outlet , not the return pipe connected to return pump. Return pipe is 20mm .
Can you guys advise if this is feasible?

[devilfire]

r u goin 2 DIY ur sump or it has already being made 1??

[BarraCuda™]

yes it will work but is yr powerhead suitable for the headloss from the sump to the skimmer?

Hi everyone , thanks.
Basically , 1)the main tank size is 30" x 18" x 18"
sump tank size is 1.5ft by 1ft by 1ft

2) there is only one hole drilled 25mm on the left size bottom of tank and I have to get a pvc pipe to extend the length of the overflow pipe.(my tank overflow compartment is simlpy the pipe w/o the special overflow compartment like other tank)
3) Sump tank is basically a filter media compartment , a DSB Compartment and the return pump compartment. My idea is to connect a Weipro 2011 to the return pump , placed hanging on the main tank itself, which means that the final discharge of the water to main tank is through skimmer outlet , not the return pipe connected to return pump. Return pipe is 20mm .
Can you guys advise if this is feasible?

[bonjour2]

r u goin 2 DIY ur sump or it has already being made 1??

Hi DevilFire , no I plan to get someone to custom make one. What is your advise on a 1.5ft by 1 ft by 1ft with 3 compartment? Too Small or something...? :confused:

[bonjour2]

yes it will work but is yr powerhead suitable for the headloss from the sump to the skimmer?

Hi Bro BarraCuda,
Didn't get what you mean...1)do you mean the return pump is not strong from Sump to Skimmer? I have not get any return pump , so perhaps for a powerhead to function the Weipro 2011 + accounting for the loss from the distance bet sump to the skimmer(hanging on main tank) , what is the estimated flow rate for pump?
I think worst to worst , might as well get a cheaper pump to run the weipro 2011?What is the recommended stand alone pump rate for this case? and the rate for return pump? Please advise.

[devilfire]

never consider a bigger sump? say..2x1.5x1.5.

whichever ur decision, juz make sure
1) the vol in ur main tk(between the top of the overflow pipe and the top of the main tk) is more than the vol(water) in the last compartment of the sump.
2) the sump is able 2 hold the siphon back water from the main tk(ur setup is unlikely 2 happen).

[devilfire]

Hi Bro BarraCuda,
Didn't get what you mean...1)do you mean the return pump is not strong from Sump to Skimmer? I have not get any return pump , so perhaps for a powerhead to function the Weipro 2011 + accounting for the loss from the distance bet sump to the skimmer(hanging on main tank) , what is the estimated flow rate for pump?
I think worst to worst , might as well get a cheaper pump to run the weipro 2011?What is the recommended stand alone pump rate for this case? and the rate for return pump? Please advise.

the p/p recommended 4 a 2011 is 1200l/h. but i would advise 2 go 4 a 1500l/h.
if u gonna use the initial setup, i'm not not sure wat kind of flowrate u shd get.

[Navyblue]

I strongly advice to use 2 separate pumps, to prevent things got expensive and complicated.

AT a head of 1.2-1.5 m which in most cases are, most pumps gets about half the max flowrate. So as I suggested, use one at least 4000L/H. May be you can use Weipro 6000 rated at 4900L/H if I am not mistaken for budget pump.

For Weipro 2011 I advice you to go for a 2000 L/H, I am using 2012 with 2500 L/H and feel that the skimmer can accomodate more flow than this, may be can take till 3500 L/H for 2012.

[bonjour2]

never consider a bigger sump? say..2x1.5x1.5.

whichever ur decision, juz make sure
1) the vol in ur main tk(between the top of the overflow pipe and the top of the main tk) is more than the vol(water) in the last compartment of the sump.
2) the sump is able 2 hold the siphon back water from the main tk(ur setup is unlikely 2 happen).

Hmm, now I am confused Bro DevilFire,
I try to post a diagram of my intended design of Overflow( or if you been to LCK110 ) , did you see the way the tanks are drilled and a PVC pipe attached , with the top portion connected to a conical shaped pvc. Yup mine overflow will be like that , w/o the additional glass partition enclosing the overflow like most tanks do(is that necessary?)
So my logic is drill a 25mm hole with a 25mm overflow pipe, a return pipe 20mm , and as the return pump pump water back into main , water overflow through the overflow pipe back into sump. How do I ensure 1) ?

[Navyblue]

I use 25 mm i.d. pipe for about 1500 L/H of flow and the water level is just at thr level of the intake, so if you are targetting 2000L/H you should be enough.

Before you want to know it is enough or not you need to know whjat flow you target first.

But not to worry too much as it can be compensated by lowering the water intake, just make sure your sump has enough capacity to hold the water above the intake once the pump is off.

[bonjour2]

I use 25 mm i.d. pipe for about 1500 L/H of flow and the water level is just at thr level of the intake, so if you are targetting 2000L/H you should be enough.

Before you want to know it is enough or not you need to know whjat flow you target first.

But not to worry too much as it can be compensated by lowering the water intake, just make sure your sump has enough capacity to hold the water above the intake once the pump is off.

Hi NavyBlue ,
Thanks for your reply. Hmm do you mean flow rate of pump at 2000l/h ? That's quite a strong pump. Also , do you think the 1.5ft by 1ft by 1ft sump is suitable for a main tank size 2.5ft by 1.5ft by 1.5ft ? Please advise/

[Navyblue]

Yes, I mean an eventual flowrate of 2000 L/H after head loss. Which is about 10+ times turnover per hour. I am currently running at this flowrate and find that it is just nice. Not too strong at all. In fact I need extra circulation or else poops will be lying everywhere in the sand bed. Meaning you need a pump about 4000L/H before head loss. This is not a huge pump. But if you are using a powerhead then this is a huge powerhead.

For the sump size, get one that is as big as you can fit, and then you can have the luxury of keeping extra fishes. This is invaluable to me. I recommend using the standard 2 feet tank (can cost as low as $10), and use containers inside as the “compartment”. I personally do that, my filter media and DSB is placed in side some plastic container, those type where people use to store love letters during Chinese New Year, get the rectangular type instead of the round type and it will be just as neat. Further more you can get to “move around” your DSB when needed.

[bonjour2]

Hi NavyBlue, perhaps you can show a pic of the DIY Sump Tank. I have 1 2ft tank lying around...

[devilfire]

[QUOTE=Navyblue

For Weipro 2011 I advice you to go for a 2000 L/H, I am using 2012 with 2500 L/H and feel that the skimmer can accomodate more flow than this, may be can take till 3500 L/H for 2012.[/QUOTE]

can show a pic of the skimmate??

i believe a 3500l/h will b too great 4 a 2012.

[devilfire]

Hmm, now I am confused Bro DevilFire,
I try to post a diagram of my intended design of Overflow( or if you been to LCK110 ) , did you see the way the tanks are drilled and a PVC pipe attached , with the top portion connected to a conical shaped pvc. Yup mine overflow will be like that , w/o the additional glass partition enclosing the overflow like most tanks do(is that necessary?)
So my logic is drill a 25mm hole with a 25mm overflow pipe, a return pipe 20mm , and as the return pump pump water back into main , water overflow through the overflow pipe back into sump. How do I ensure 1) ?

i never been there b 4 but i know wat u trying 2 explain.

now the question is: r u using 1 or 2 p/p??

[devilfire]

Hi NavyBlue ,
Thanks for your reply. Hmm do you mean flow rate of pump at 2000l/h ? That's quite a strong pump. Also , do you think the 1.5ft by 1ft by 1ft sump is suitable for a main tank size 2.5ft by 1.5ft by 1.5ft ? Please advise/

there is no right or wrong as in wat size of sump u gonna use. generally, the bigger the better. a 1.5x1x1 is fine. if u can move 2 a 2.5x1.5x1.5, tat would b the best.

[devilfire]

[QUOTE=Navyblue]For the sump size, get one that is as big as you can fit, and then you can have the luxury of keeping extra fishes.

i'm curious.. wat u mean??

[Jeffrey74]

bonjour2 (http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/member.php?u=11387), first of all. You intend to place ur sump in the cabinet or you are using wrought iron 2 tier stand? I dun know anything about calculations but I can tell you what I did to my system before.

Try to custom made your sump tank big enough to go in your cabinet if you are having a cabinet. I had my sump tank made at 2.5ftx1ftx1ft to nicely fit into my cabinet.

I had my main tank 3ftx1.5ftx1.5ft drilled 1 25mm as overflow & 1 20mm as return with a glass compartment. No problem encountered. (Without a glass compartment is rather dangerous. Live stock might get suck in or the overflow pvc hole got stuck?)

Like all bros said. There's no too big or too small for the sump tank. I believe it's up to you what you gonna to have in ur sump. Your setup quite similar to mine. I made the sump tank with 3 compartments:

1st compartment, 4" length for mechcanical filter.
2nd compartment, 16" length for DSB compartment.
3rd compartment, 10" length for holding my weipro 2012 & 2 pumps.

Go for a 3ft sump tank if you are using wrought iron 2 tier stand. (Just my opinion):p

Hope this helps you abit.

[devilfire]

hey jeff, take note his main tk is a 2.5 ft length.

[bonjour2]

Thanks all for your tremendous replies. Okay Bro Devilfire ,what is meant by p/p ? If it is the pipe , there is only one hole drilled at 20mm as the overflow pipe , and I intend to use a 2 pump system in Sump( one for weipro , one for return pipe)

Bro Jeff, w/o the glass compartment would be aright imo , if you been to cck ff oppo Farmart , there's one fs setup exactly like what I intend to do.

I am using Fish stand btw.

[Navyblue]

[QUOTE=Navyblue]For the sump size, get one that is as big as you can fit, and then you can have the luxury of keeping extra fishes.

i'm curious.. wat u mean??


Sorry for the language, I mean get a sump as big as possible which can fit under your stand or cabinet.

[Navyblue]

Here is a pic of my skimmate after 2 days, weipro 2012 using weipro 3000 (2500L/H), not very impressive, quite waterry.

In order to adjust the water level to the bottom of the cup, I need to almost close the outlet valve. Which means it can take much more flow without overflowing. I estimated 3500L/H will still be safe. Of course it is an estimation.

[Navyblue]

Here is a pic of my sump. It is a 24"x12"x16" tank.

Very simple, the downflow is directed to the container at the leftwhich contains filter media. and at the right is a pump that pumps water up. And a skimmer of course.

The dead corals have no purpose, just can't find a place to store them hehe... The same goes with the sand. I intend to get a container to store the sand and make it into a mini DSB, may or may not help.

[Jeffrey74]

hey jeff, take note his main tk is a 2.5 ft length.
izzit...:eek: sorry leh:o been too hardworking lately, need to get my eyes checked liao:p

[Jeffrey74]

Bro Jeff, w/o the glass compartment would be aright imo , if you been to cck ff oppo Farmart , there's one fs setup exactly like what I intend to do.

Any exact location for this lfs you talking about? Think I'll visit them to get some idea for my setup too.;)

[bonjour2]

Bro Jeff, w/o the glass compartment would be aright imo , if you been to cck ff oppo Farmart , there's one fs setup exactly like what I intend to do.

Any exact location for this lfs you talking about? Think I'll visit them to get some idea for my setup too.;)

Okay , the address is Sungei Tengah Road , no65 i think can't remember, just opposite farmmart 5 min. A compund with 3 farms , but one juz shifted to farmmart... not much stuff there , lck110 having the same setup as mention.. but the fs name oas..... aqua.... have the setup i am talking abt , with a 2footer on display w sump tank for sale.

[devilfire]

Thanks all for your tremendous replies. Okay Bro Devilfire ,what is meant by p/p ? If it is the pipe , there is only one hole drilled at 20mm as the overflow pipe , and I intend to use a 2 pump system in Sump( one for weipro , one for return pipe)

Bro Jeff, w/o the glass compartment would be aright imo , if you been to cck ff oppo Farmart , there's one fs setup exactly like what I intend to do.

I am using Fish stand btw.

sorry, in layman term, p/p is pump, v/v is valve. it's in engineering term.
good 2 hear tat u r using 2 p/p altogether, i believe u will hav lesser problem encounter.
w/o the glass compartment, i agree it's fine. but take note u hav 2 place something(wire mesh at least) at the openning, 2 prevent the fishes being 'suck'.

[devilfire]

Sorry for the language, I mean get a sump as big as possible which can fit under your stand or cabinet.

no... errr wat u mean by u can keep extra fishes??

[devilfire]

Here is a pic of my skimmate after 2 days, weipro 2012 using weipro 3000 (2500L/H), not very impressive, quite waterry.

In order to adjust the water level to the bottom of the cup, I need to almost close the outlet valve. Which means it can take much more flow without overflowing. I estimated 3500L/H will still be safe. Of course it is an estimation.

thanks 4 the pic but it's definitely overskimmed. i believe ur p/p is too great 4 a 2012.
u mean the water level is juz at the bottom of the cup?? i think tat's too high.

[devilfire]

Here is a pic of my sump. It is a 24"x12"x16" tank.

Very simple, the downflow is directed to the container at the leftwhich contains filter media. and at the right is a pump that pumps water up. And a skimmer of course.

The dead corals have no purpose, just can't find a place to store them hehe... The same goes with the sand. I intend to get a container to store the sand and make it into a mini DSB, may or may not help.

good man, idea liao liao. u will b the future DIY guru... ;)

[Navyblue]

no... errr wat u mean by u can keep extra fishes??

Having a sump means increasing your total volume. One of the factor that you determine how many fish you can keep in one tank is its water volume. The more water you have the more room you have for waste dilution and also the more the volume the more is the dissolved oxygen.

[Navyblue]

thanks 4 the pic but it's definitely overskimmed. i believe ur p/p is too great 4 a 2012.
u mean the water level is juz at the bottom of the cup?? i think tat's too high.

Yes I adjusted the water level to be just below the cup, perhaps it is too high. But to get this water level I probably only open 5% of the outlet valve. When I open fully the water level is just at the level of the outlet. Which means it is going to take a lot more flow for it to be get overflow when the valve is fully opened.

For a venturi skimmer, there is no pump that is too strong as long as the skimmer don't overflow. The higher the flow, the more air that you are going to draw from the venturi, the more bubbles is produced, the more foam is produced.

[bonjour2]

sorry, in layman term, p/p is pump, v/v is valve. it's in engineering term.
good 2 hear tat u r using 2 p/p altogether, i believe u will hav lesser problem encounter.
w/o the glass compartment, i agree it's fine. but take note u hav 2 place something(wire mesh at least) at the openning, 2 prevent the fishes being 'suck'.

HaHa okie , thanks for the abbreviation , I am not Engineer trained , but in midst of Economics training....hee hee hee. :p

[bonjour2]

Also , yup I will be adding a Mesh Wire to the top to prevent fishes from sucking in. Aniway , for a overflow pipe of 20mm , to a 1.5ft by 1ft by 1ft tank , what type of return pump do you suggest , and the return pipe diameter ? :)

[Navyblue]

good man, idea liao liao. u will b the future DIY guru... ;)

That was very flaterring.

Well what to do? This is what we poor reefer have to do, keep thinking of cutting cost to achieve the best performance.

[Navyblue]

Also , yup I will be adding a Mesh Wire to the top to prevent fishes from sucking in. Aniway , for a overflow pipe of 20mm , to a 1.5ft by 1ft by 1ft tank , what type of return pump do you suggest , and the return pipe diameter ? :)

That's exactly what I do and so is many LFS.

As I said, get a pump about 4000L/H. The pipe diameter is not as crucial but best to be as close as the outlet of the pump. You will experience some loss of flow from much bigger or much smaller tubing.

[devilfire]

Having a sump means increasing your total volume. One of the factor that you determine how many fish you can keep in one tank is its water volume. The more water you have the more room you have for waste dilution and also the more the volume the more is the dissolved oxygen.

not necessary true 4 all fishes, esp 4 those which r more territorial.

[devilfire]

Yes I adjusted the water level to be just below the cup, perhaps it is too high. But to get this water level I probably only open 5% of the outlet valve. When I open fully the water level is just at the level of the outlet. Which means it is going to take a lot more flow for it to be get overflow when the valve is fully opened.

For a venturi skimmer, there is no pump that is too strong as long as the skimmer don't overflow. The higher the flow, the more air that you are going to draw from the venturi, the more bubbles is produced, the more foam is produced.

i believe it's too high..

i agree tat 4 a venturi skimmer, no pump is too strong as long as the skimmer dun overflow...
but let me tell u... it will never overflow..regardless wat type of p/p u use. i can tell u if u use a 100000000l/h p/p, it will oso not overflow. of cos when i say 100000000, i'm exaggerating. if u use such a p/p, i believe many parts of ur skimmer will give way 1st.
do u know how a venturi works??
do u understand the principle behind its operation??
let's discuss n share..

[Jeffrey74]

hehe...:) very interesting topic. can i know more? all i know is that the more bubble the merrier.

[devilfire]

The higher the flow, the more air that you are going to draw from the venturi, the more bubbles is produced, the more foam is produced.

fren, i think u got the concept all wrong. eductor(venturi) doesnt work tis way. doesnt mean u use a higher flowrate p/p it gonna draw more air. it's not 100% true.

[devilfire]

hehe...:) very interesting topic. can i know more? all i know is that the more bubble the merrier.

it is true tat more bubble the merrier.. but the explanation is gonna b long. i'm engineering trained, having deal with mechanical parts 4 more than 8 yrs. i know the theory of a venturi well. i would not dare 2 say 100% but at least 90%.

[Jeffrey74]

it is true tat more bubble the merrier.. but the explanation is gonna b long. i'm engineering trained, having deal with mechanical parts 4 more than 8 yrs. i know the theory of a venturi well. i would not dare 2 say 100% but at least 90%.
aiyo devilfire, you tell us the theory of the venturi in singapore style la. i think it'll be much shorter:p 90% very good already. me? -10% i think. just buy when recommended:confused:

[devilfire]

ok i'll explain in simplicity then..
fr any weipro skimmer, the black connector which link the p/p outlet 2 the skimmer inlet wif a T-off(air tube) is called an eductor.
in tis eductor, u will c a restriction(smaller diameter, nozzle). at tis nozzle, u will c a T-off, connected 2 a air hose/tube in tis case.
wat happens is water fr the p/p will pass thru the eductor. when the water is at the nozzle(juz b 4 passing thru), it will experience high pressure but low velocity. when the water passes thru(juz after the nozzle), it will experience high velocity but low pressure. it is tis change of state will cause a vacuum at the T-off. tis vacuum will "suck" air thru the hose/tube, n will travel together wif the water.
the whole process is called the VENTURI effect.
now, at a certain nozzle diameter, there will b a max flowrate 2 it. 4 e.g., a 10mm nozzle will allow a max flowrate of 2000l/h. manufacturers will give their recommendations accordingly. so if u gonna use a 4000l/h p/p 4 the above eg, it will still draw the same amt of air. UNLESS, u change the size of the nozzle n tubing.
understand??? ;)

[Jeffrey74]

ok i'll explain in simplicity then..
fr any weipro skimmer, the black connector which link the p/p outlet 2 the skimmer inlet wif a T-off(air tube) is called an eductor.
in tis eductor, u will c a restriction(smaller diameter, nozzle). at tis nozzle, u will c a T-off, connected 2 a air hose/tube in tis case.
wat happens is water fr the p/p will pass thru the eductor. when the water is at the nozzle(juz b 4 passing thru), it will experience high pressure but low velocity. when the water passes thru(juz after the nozzle), it will experience high velocity but low pressure. it is tis change of state will cause a vacuum at the T-off. tis vacuum will "suck" air thru the hose/tube, n will travel together wif the water.
the whole process is called the VENTURI effect.
now, at a certain nozzle diameter, there will b a max flowrate 2 it. 4 e.g., a 10mm nozzle will allow a max flowrate of 2000l/h. manufacturers will give their recommendations accordingly. so if u gonna use a 4000l/h p/p 4 the above eg, it will still draw the same amt of air. UNLESS, u change the size of the nozzle n tubing.
understand??? ;)
i still an idiot for this:p but i think it means you will not get more bubbles with higher flowrate with the equiment which its capacity of releasing bubbles is fixed unless you change or modify the equiment?:confused:

[devilfire]

u r almost there ;)
if say, 4 safety factor, manufacturers recommend 2000l/h p/p n the max flowrate 4 tat eductor is 2500l/h, then using the latter will give u more bubbles.

[Navyblue]

not necessary true 4 all fishes, esp 4 those which r more territorial.

Yes having a sump does not solve teritory issue I agree, howeven I am addressing to the biological need of the fishes rather than their behavioral need. More water means more stable water condition.

[Navyblue]

i believe it's too high..

i agree tat 4 a venturi skimmer, no pump is too strong as long as the skimmer dun overflow...
but let me tell u... it will never overflow..regardless wat type of p/p u use. i can tell u if u use a 100000000l/h p/p, it will oso not overflow. of cos when i say 100000000, i'm exaggerating. if u use such a p/p, i believe many parts of ur skimmer will give way 1st.
do u know how a venturi works??
do u understand the principle behind its operation??
let's discuss n share..

Yea I like discussion, that's where we all learn.

Yes I understand what is a venturi and the principle behind a venturi skimmer. You seems to be an engineer. I am not an engineer, you should know more than I do but I'm just telling you what I think and what I have experienced. I only have taken some modules on hydraulic, although it is just a scratch on the surface.

Bro, too high flow can overflow, may be you have never seen one skimmer that overflows. But it will and I have seen it. Although upon using higher flowrate you will have more loss of flow in the venturi, nevertheless the eventual flow will increase, though not in a propotional manner.

Consider the difference of weipro 2011 and 2014, they have the identical inlet and outlet size, made of the exact same material, but they have different "recommended" flow. The difference is only at the reaction chamber being 2014 have a larger reaction chamber. The larger the reaction chamber, the less likely that it overflows. But I agree with you that it is going to be able to take a lot of flow.

AndI agree that the skimmer costruction will not be able to take a pressure that is too high. But most of the pressure will be at the pipings before the venturi, that will be the part to burst if it is going to burst. And I believe that the most powerful pumps that is normally available are not capable of doing so.

[devilfire]

ok well defined..
so bonjour2, take note the above statement does not imply to all, especially if u intend 2 keep territorial tangs. they need lots of swimming space.

[Navyblue]

fren, i think u got the concept all wrong. eductor(venturi) doesnt work tis way. doesnt mean u use a higher flowrate p/p it gonna draw more air. it's not 100% true.

Venturi works by the principle that the high velocity creates a low pressure, thus it draws is air. The higer the flow, the hiher the velocity that you are going to create. And the rate of pressure drop is propotional to the velocity. don't ask me to take out my text book as I have thrown them away :P But I agree with you that the relationship is not linear.

Bro, tell me your understanding then?

[Navyblue]

ok i'll explain in simplicity then..
fr any weipro skimmer, the black connector which link the p/p outlet 2 the skimmer inlet wif a T-off(air tube) is called an eductor.
in tis eductor, u will c a restriction(smaller diameter, nozzle). at tis nozzle, u will c a T-off, connected 2 a air hose/tube in tis case.
wat happens is water fr the p/p will pass thru the eductor. when the water is at the nozzle(juz b 4 passing thru), it will experience high pressure but low velocity. when the water passes thru(juz after the nozzle), it will experience high velocity but low pressure. it is tis change of state will cause a vacuum at the T-off. tis vacuum will "suck" air thru the hose/tube, n will travel together wif the water.
the whole process is called the VENTURI effect.
now, at a certain nozzle diameter, there will b a max flowrate 2 it. 4 e.g., a 10mm nozzle will allow a max flowrate of 2000l/h. manufacturers will give their recommendations accordingly. so if u gonna use a 4000l/h p/p 4 the above eg, it will still draw the same amt of air. UNLESS, u change the size of the nozzle n tubing.
understand??? ;)

You are absolutelly right, The question here is how much is the max flow of that venturi. I do not ahve any info on this, try comparing the venturi of a 2011 and 2014, are they identical, although they have different reccomended flow rate. I believe the recommended flow is far from hitting the maximum limit too far.

[devilfire]

Venturi works by the principle that the high velocity creates a low pressure, thus it draws is air. The higer the flow, the hiher the velocity that you are going to create. And the rate of pressure drop is propotional to the velocity. don't ask me to take out my text book as I have thrown them away :P But I agree with you that the relationship is not linear.

Bro, tell me your understanding then?

bro, u stil dun understand. it's NOT the high vel n low press tat draws the air..

after these lengthy debate, i think i understand u more. i think u like 2 understand things 2 the fullest.

like u said, u r not engineer trained. i was n i took almost 6mths 2 fully understand tis theory. on the surface, it sounds simple. but there r still many factors 2 consider.

many times during my course of training, ppl often get mix up wif weight n mass, pressure n force, torque n horsepower, speed n velocity, volume n flowrate.........

ur pt of view is right, in a lay-man term. but 2 a professional, it need more detail explanation.

tat is y i told jeff i would explain in simplicity. n it has been yrs since i touch on tis theory, n tat is y i believe i has forgotten some of the principles behind it.

think we shd stop here, we r going further n further away. we r going out of topic.

anyway, good 2 hav a debator like u ard. it's fun n ppl will learn more things.

cheers ;)

[Jeffrey74]

Er... bro devilfire & Navyblue. After reading the discussion, I have only 1 conclusion. WE ARE OUT OF TOPIC!:p Sorry bonjour2.

[Navyblue]

bro, u stil dun understand. it's NOT the high vel n low press tat draws the air..

after these lengthy debate, i think i understand u more. i think u like 2 understand things 2 the fullest.

like u said, u r not engineer trained. i was n i took almost 6mths 2 fully understand tis theory. on the surface, it sounds simple. but there r still many factors 2 consider.

many times during my course of training, ppl often get mix up wif weight n mass, pressure n force, torque n horsepower, speed n velocity, volume n flowrate.........

ur pt of view is right, in a lay-man term. but 2 a professional, it need more detail explanation.

tat is y i told jeff i would explain in simplicity. n it has been yrs since i touch on tis theory, n tat is y i believe i has forgotten some of the principles behind it.

think we shd stop here, we r going further n further away. we r going out of topic.

anyway, good 2 hav a debator like u ard. it's fun n ppl will learn more things.

cheers ;)

Well though I am not from the engineering field, I come from science field, and know the difference between weight n mass, pressure n force, torque n horsepower, speed n velocity, volume n flowrate.........

Yes I agree we should stop hehe :D... I think debate in theory is a moot because there is no way for us to know is the flow too much for the venturi, we don't know to what extend that the manufacturer overstate or understate the flow requirement. Thus only one thing here that can proves the fact, that is by experiment. I got better skimmate and bubble production when using more flow which speaks for itself, and do not see any bottle neck effect on bubble production as more flow is used.

Bro bonjour2, sorry for the off topic :o

[devilfire]

Well though I am not from the engineering field, I come from science field, and know the difference between weight n mass, pressure n force, torque n horsepower, speed n velocity, volume n flowrate.........

well, i hope u do..

Yes I agree we should stop hehe :D... I think debate in theory is a moot because there is no way for us to know is the flow too much for the venturi,

well, fr performance u can tell..

Thus only one thing here that can proves the fact, that is by experiment..

ok, can agree, fr experiment u c the performance..like wat i said juz(dun condradict urself)

I got better skimmate and bubble production when using more flow which speaks for itself,.

then u shd try again 2 get the best skimmate, think the 1 in the pic is not gd enough.

and do not see any bottle neck effect on bubble production as more flow is used.

here, i hope u dun confuse flow wif vol..

[bonjour2]

So finally , you guys still remember i exist on earth :mad: :confused: :p
Aniway, imo , i think a 1500l/h will be the sufficient for weipro2011 , and the most important regarding the overflow and return is not so much abt the diameter of the pipe, rather the distance from the p/p ( :p ) to the return in main tank and to account for head loss as the more important issue? Agree bros? :) Better make some calculations before i waste money on p/p then...

[devilfire]

Aniway, imo , i think a 1500l/h will be the sufficient for weipro2011 ...

yes, i believe strongly. cant get a good skimmate?? post again. i'll help u.

[Navyblue]

well, fr performance u can tell..

Exactly, been there done that.

ok, can agree, fr experiment u c the performance..like wat i said juz(dun condradict urself)

Where is the contradiction point? I am not saying I got the best skimmate or setting. I am just comparing higher flow and lower flow. The more powerful the pump the faster and higher the foam can get accumulated.

then u shd try again 2 get the best skimmate, think the 1 in the pic is not gd enough.

When I post the picture I already said it is not good enough.

here, i hope u dun confuse flow wif vol..

What does it got to do with volume?

I thought you are stopping the "debate"? :eek:

[Navyblue]

So finally , you guys still remember i exist on earth :mad: :confused: :p
Aniway, imo , i think a 1500l/h will be the sufficient for weipro2011 , and the most important regarding the overflow and return is not so much abt the diameter of the pipe, rather the distance from the p/p ( :p ) to the return in main tank and to account for head loss as the more important issue? Agree bros? :) Better make some calculations before i waste money on p/p then...

Yes, just need to target how much of turnover per hour you want. Common thumb of rule is about 5x for return, for me I go for 10x.

[devilfire]

Exactly, been there done that.:

doesnt seems like...well maybe, try harder then



Where is the contradiction point? I am not saying I got the best skimmate or setting. I am just comparing higher flow and lower flow. The more powerful the pump the faster and higher the foam can get accumulated..:

well u seems 2 how how stuff works, u seems like the MR-know-it-all. then do something 2 improve ur skimmate. wat i see here does not justify the way u talk. doesnt mean the faster and higher the foam, u can good skimmate. if u r doing according 2 tis theory, well at least tat already proves tat it's wrong.


When I post the picture I already said it is not good enough..:

since u know it's not good, y didnt u use ur know-how 2 improve it??



What does it got to do with volume?..:

see.... u still dun get it..tat's wat i had been telling u.


I thought you are stopping the "debate"? :eek:

r u??

[Navyblue]

doesnt seems like...well maybe, try harder then





well u seems 2 how how stuff works, u seems like the MR-know-it-all. then do something 2 improve ur skimmate. wat i see here does not justify the way u talk. doesnt mean the faster and higher the foam, u can good skimmate. if u r doing according 2 tis theory, well at least tat already proves tat it's wrong.




since u know it's not good, y didnt u use ur know-how 2 improve it??





see.... u still dun get it..tat's wat i had been telling u.




r u??

MR-know-it-all? I am not, and never claim to be one, and at least never like to mention about professional background to add weight to words when uninitiated.

Seems like our engineering brother here don't have a habit of reading things carefully, especially on the history of the pic, as I said we should stop here (it's your idea in fact), take it to PM please for the sake of bonjour2 and others.

[devilfire]

Seems like you don't have a habit of reading things carefully.

correct me pls then...

[Jeffrey74]

Bro devilfire & Navyblue, I am so sorry I started the off topic:( Very sad to see the 2 of you can't come to an agreement. I strongly believe that the 2 of you got a point of view of your own. 2 of you got your own explaination on the same equiment. It's up to individual to decide what is best for their equiment. The secenario now is like the 2 of you saw the Miss Universe at the same time but not the 2 of you agree that she's the most beautiful woman on earth. Well??? Can we have a full stop here? I apologise for the off topic again. :( Verry Sorry bonjour2 & all members involved in this thread.:( :( :(

[Navyblue]

Bro devilfire & Navyblue, I am so sorry I started the off topic:( Very sad to see the 2 of you can't come to an agreement. I strongly believe that the 2 of you got a point of view of your own. 2 of you got your own explaination on the same equiment. It's up to individual to decide what is best for their equiment. The secenario now is like the 2 of you saw the Miss Universe at the same time but not the 2 of you agree that she's the most beautiful woman on earth. Well??? Can we have a full stop here? I apologise for the off topic again. :( Verry Sorry bonjour2 & all members involved in this thread.:( :( :(

I apologise... It is not your fault Jeffrey74... You are just trying to make things better :)

[devilfire]

hi jeff,dun worry, i already PM bonjour n explained 2 him. we'll b fine..
i'll PM u later, bro, on y tis is non stop..

[Jeffrey74]

Glad to hear that from the both of you:D