Best method to cure swim bladder problem?

[calvin15]

HI,

just want to hear some opinion from all the experts there.

Is there any good way to cure swim bladder problem? although i know it's almost impossible...but i read from the book DFI wrote.
they mention that it can be done by sucking out the air from the bladder using a very fine syringe...any one tried before? pls share

[Vil]

if i am not wrong it causes fishes to swim at an angle or slanted rite?

[davidsws]

this is what i heard too but sucking out but is there anyone that has done it before
what is main cause for this bladder problem
this we have to ask ourselves

hmm so far i do not know too
-lower water level
-salt dip the fellow
-medication
-or by sucking out

pls advise

[calvin15]

so far, the methods tried are what david had mentioned.

sucking out the air is the first i've heard and read from DFI's books

let's hope more people can share.

[Vetduck]

If there is a swimbladder over-inflation problem then, yes you can aspirate the air with a sterile needle & syringe. However it would usually recur.

Prognosis for swim bladder problems are usually poor. However I've heard that if the disease is detected & treated early, prognosis may be fair.

[calvin15]

Originally posted by Vetduck
If there is a swimbladder over-inflation problem then, yes you can aspirate the air with a sterile needle & syringe. However it would usually recur.

Prognosis for swim bladder problems are usually poor. However I've heard that if the disease is detected & treated early, prognosis may be fair.


tell us more of the disease Vetduck bro...
i'm sure alot of people will appreciate it.

[Vetduck]

With swim bladder disorders, it is usually difficult to identify the cause of the disorder in live fish. There are 2 types of swim bladder disorders:
1) The abnormal accumulation of fluid in the swim bladder.
2) The over-inflation of the swim bladder.

With fluid accumulation in the swim bladder, there would be a loss of buoyancy. The fish would sink to the bottom of the tank or have problems staying afloat. In severe cases you might see abdominal swelling. This could be caused by bacterial, fungal or myxosporean infection.

Over-inflation will produce abnormal positive buoyancy. The fish floats to the surface at rest. Some may float to one side, or be tilted at an angle or even inverted.

Some cases may recover after a short period of starvation, increased temp & additon of salt. The common belief to decrease water level to help right or level out the fish does nothing to help the disorder.

Air can be removed by paracentesis with a hypodermic needle & syringe to help reduce the swim-bladder, but these often re-inflate. Physiotherapy involving massaging, may be helpful in less severe cases or those in the early stages of the disease. Prognosis is usually guarded to poor.

[Isna]

Hi Calvin15,
i think the word 'cure' is too 'strong'.
Aspiration of the swimbladder is not usually a cure, but more of a diagnostic tool and treatment.

like what Davidsws has implied, we need to know the cause first before u can cure it.
causes?? don't ask me!! haha...
hyperinflation of the swimbladder has numerous causes.
perhaps most well-known is the idiopathic syndrome in goldfishes. they believe it's due to dietary, genetics and possibly infectious causes( correct me if i'm wrong).

it's been shown that certain viral and protozoan infections in goldfishes n koi can lead to swimbladder inflammation.

Bacterial infections of the swimbladder is often a secondary complication of peritonitis, n i suspect it's a common cause in aros...just a guess.

gas supersaturation can cause swimbladder hyperinflation. a similar situation can occur during air-transport.

so, if u put a needle n aspirate pus, then u know it's a bacterial infection.l if u get pure air, it could b quite a few things. if u get lots of epithelial cells, u might b dealing with a rare cause of swimbladder tumour....
whatever it is, sucking out air will relief the symptoms--often temporarily. sometimes( gas supersaturation or air-transport), it will not reoccur, n u have cured the fish. most of the time it will return---that's why the prognosis is generally poor as vetduck has said. I believe most cases in aros r due to bacterial infections---mayb TB, mayb Aeromonas...etc

one thing i would like to clarify is lowering the water level.
i don't know where it came from, but everyone in this forum seems to like the idea.
there is no benefit in doing this, except to fool yourself n make the aro appear more balanced....
the main risk is less vol = less water = ammonia and oxygen problems.
Theoretically speaking, if u submerge an aro into a very very deep tank, the pressure due to the depth will cause the swimbladder to shrink n absorb the air............

[calvin15]

yes...which is why i'm hoping to get more info on the swim bladder problem as i notice alot of bro here face the same problem with their aro.

anyone have a pics of aro body parts? can show which part exactly is the swim bladder? will appreciate all the info.

must share share mah..

[Hobbit6003]

Hi Clavin,

When we talk about swim bladder problem, we probably can classify the problem under 2 big heading: 1. Pathological meaning a disease, or 2. Developmental defects.

1. Pathological cause

The swim bladder may be affected by an infection, and that cause the bladder to malfunction, most of the time hyperinflated. Sometimes, the bladder may also be affected by infection or other forms of disease to other organs around it, causing organ enlargement which in turn may compress upon the swim bladder causing it to malfunction.

If the problem is a mild infection, usually bacterial in nature, the prognosis is quite good if the infection is detected earlier and the appropriate treatment rendered. However if there's other disease like neoplasm (tumour) that's the cause, then chances are slim too.

2. Developmental defect

This type of anomaly has a poor prognosis, as they're factors beyond anyone's control.

This may be due to a malformed swim bladder or a malpositioned swim bladder. This can also be a result of other developmental anomaly like a spinal defect which cause the body cavities to be compressed, and as such the swim bladder cannot function properly.

Lowering water level alters the water pressure, and this may mask the effect of the swim bladder, thus enable the fish to swim properly as long as the water level is maintain as such. Recovery by water pressure alteration, I believe, can help condition the swim bladder gradually, but only if the defect is detected early and very mild. This is applicable, of course, to developmental defect.

Medication is applicable only to fishes with an infection causing the swim bladder dysfunction. Fine needle aspiration is used as a symptomatic relief rather than a cure.

Calvin, if I get the history of your aro right, chances are that it is a developmental defect.

Cheers,

Kenny

[Isna]

QUOTE:
This may be due to a malformed swim bladder or a malpositioned swim bladder. This can also be a result of other developmental anomaly like a spinal defect which cause the body cavities to be compressed, and as such the swim bladder cannot function properly.

Hi Kenny, r u refering to the case in goldfishes---the so called flipover condition which ryukins r most predisposed to?
http://www.koivet.com/flipover/
sounds to me like a genetic/developmental problem (quote: Natural complication of over-compressed body conformation ), complicated by other factors such as an unbalanced diet and high nitrates....well, this is what the koi/goldfish experts reckon.
the prognosis is actually pretty good if surgery is performed early n by someone experienced/skilled.

I don't think aros have a similar idiopathic flipover condition like ryukins....A large proportion of cases in aros r probably due to bacterial speticaemia. they have an acute onset, and the fish is not happy( not eating, depressed etc). they may show other signs of sepsis, and often die in within a short period. although antibiotics can fix it if given early, most of the time, it's too late and the drugs used r inappropriate( probably need to inject etc)

on the otherhand, i've experienced cases in aros, most likely due to air-transport and possibly gas supersaturation. these aros on the other hand r not as crook. they don't die immediately, may even eat n attempt to swim etc....but, as the bladder continues to inflate, they eventually stress out n die from secondary complications.

[Xx{-_-}xX]

Hi+ Its a nasty prob for the aro.. but how high is a chance of a aro making a recovery compared to fatality...:(

[emps]

Originally posted by calvin15
yes...which is why i'm hoping to get more info on the swim bladder problem as i notice alot of bro here face the same problem with their aro.

anyone have a pics of aro body parts? can show which part exactly is the swim bladder? will appreciate all the info.

must share share mah..

Here's the chart... Anatomical Chart.. (http://arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24189&highlight=anatomical)

Look at my post as it represent a Jardini...

[calvin15]

thanks man...that's really more than a pic...hehehe

really interesting, anymore treatment method?