Aro inactive

[Philip]

Hi Everyone

Tried to describe to my best of my knowledge. A week ago, discorvered some minor skin peel off from the gill plate, active, appetite ok. Add some ketapang leaves to the tank a few days ago. Spotted some red patches in between the gills near to its belly. Appetite ok, active. Advice by LFS and I raised the temp. to 32 deg. Never add salt because LFS told me that I could have put in too much salt previously, two handful every water(30%) change. Tank size 4' ,1.8, 1.8. This morning, saw aro resting in one corner even I go near to him. Swimming abit jerky. Fed him some MP, ate and went back and rest at the same corner. Red patches seem better now. My question is, why it has bacame in active, kept resting at the same corner.

Thanks

[Duper Red]

Sounds like signs of some bacteria gill disease. Gill diseases are often signs of poor water management. check the movement of the operculum, is it irratic, deep?

go get some GILLTECT by NIKA. contains some di methy benzeneammonium chloride based medication.

your salting sound alright but difficult to note if you've gotten the proper dosage without a salt meter. salt up to 0.3% or 0.6%.


if GILLTECT does not work, the next suspect would be Gill Flukes. you can try the following:

1) 1% - 2% salt dips for up to 10mins (stop if arow is in distress)

2) formalin (in the forms of PARASITE-F by Aquamedi, Anti-Flukes/Lice by NIKA, America Pharmaceutical products) take note to remove salt when using formalin. formalin is also a possible human carcinogen.

3) Fluke Tabs (a carbamate)

4) Potassium Permanganate. Remove salt with PP treatments. This is the last resort that would be recommended as overdosage often push fish over the edge.

hope it helps......and oh, clean your filter if it's been months since you've done it.

[Isna]

Hi Philip,
Spotted some red patches in between the gills near to its belly. saw aro resting in one corner

not good bro. your aro might b showing danger signs.
r these spots kinda bloody? like patches of dark red blood? varying in size?? if yes, then your aro is haemorrhaging--petechia. most likely due to a systemic bacterial infection.

u said he's jerky....might have meningitis/encephalitis too...

anyway, u should

1) be prepared that he might die ANYTIME! if he has TB, he will NOT respond to anything we do.

2) ANTIBIOTICS. Do u have nifurpirinol/ furanace/ Sera's Baktopur direct? follow the instructions..... Other medications r generally useless.

3) Do a 40% water change.

4) add 3 g rock salt / aquarium salt per Litre of tank water.

5) Seperate from any valuable fish. it's very likely to b infectious.

6) increase aeration if possible.......

7) fill out the history sheet at " approaching a case' at the top of AroMedics page. it'll give us more insight into your case.

all the best bro
:)

[Isna]

http://www.koivet.com/symptoms2.html#anchor32708

sorry, couldn't find any good pics

[Philip]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Isna
[B]Hi Philip,


not good bro. your aro might b showing danger signs.
r these spots kinda bloody? like patches of dark red blood? varying in size?? if yes, then your aro is haemorrhaging--petechia. most likely due to a systemic bacterial infection.

u said he's jerky....might have meningitis/encephalitis too...

anyway, u should

1) be prepared that he might die ANYTIME! if he has TB, he will NOT respond to anything we do.

2) ANTIBIOTICS. Do u have nifurpirinol/ furanace/ Sera's Baktopur direct? follow the instructions..... Other medications r generally useless.

3) Do a 40% water change.

4) add 3 g rock salt / aquarium salt per Litre of tank water.

5) Seperate from any valuable fish. it's very likely to b infectious.

6) increase aeration if possible.......

7) fill out the history sheet at " approaching a case' at the top of AroMedics page. it'll give us more insight into your case.

all the best bro


Hi Isna

Your reply really give me a shock. I am still working and will rush home imm. after work. So for my tank size, am I correct to add in 1kg of aqu salt. So what abt the temp of the water?

[Isna]

i'm Not 100% sure Philip. without a complete history n physical exam.....but the blood spots r quite characteristic....

check the base of the fins for any reddening, congested veins.....

an aro with spotted red patches as u've described, anywhere along the bottom of the body---chest or belly, plus signs of inappetance n dullness = bad news.

It might b something else, but it's prudent to presume the worse n treat for it urgently.....at the moment....

good luck man.
i'll try to find pics

[Isna]

close-up of fin showing marked congestion at the fin base.....
note body is to the left, fin-tip is to the right.
pics taken from various text...

[Isna]

Here r the blood spots....tiny pin-point blood spots that tend to merge when u get plenty of them.....always found along the bottom surface of the fish.

[Isna]

this is a severe/advanced case....note how the petechiation has merged to give a large diffuse area of reddening/haemorrhage.

[Philip]

Hi Isna

Firstly, thks for been so informatic. Btw, not so red as compare to photograph. Juz slight slight reddish at the base of the fin and some skin peeling off. Went to LFS, can"t get those anti-bio that u had recommended. Still in office, Will be rushing all the way back once after work, will keep u inform.

[Isna]

u're welcome bro...anytime:)

u might want to try anything that contains nitrofurazone as a second choice.... Furan 2 might contain this antibiotic....i'm not too sure about other products in Sing.

anyhow, u probably need antibiotics to get over this....so go for the best pick i guess....any recommendations anyone?

alright, time for some sleep...hope to hear good news in the morning....

[Philip]

Hi Isna

This is one of the pic

[Philip]

Hi

Another pic

[Philip]

Hi Isna

Found out this morning that aro is more lively and follow around where I go. Manage to get Sera Baktopur instead of Sera's Baktopur direct. Is that the same. Pour in 20ml of that into the tank. At times, aro turns and jerk thrust before moving off? Btw, thanks for the advice,will keep u inform.

[Isna]

Hi Philip.
can't get close enough.
u'll have to describe it for me.
but it looks kinda localised...more like a wound.

u'll have to do a physical exam.

Checklist( here's what to check for. make sure u cover each of these bits):

1 Swimming pattern
2 Posture/position
3 General colour
4 Abnormal behaviour
5 Appetite
6 Faeces/poo
7 Body condition
8 Breathing( depth and rate)
9 Barbels
10 Nostrils
11 Mouth, jaws, teeth( if visible)
12 Eyes
13 Skin and scales on head
14 Gills( if visible)
15 Gill covers / operculum
16 Skin and scales on body
17 All fins
18 Lateral line
19 Swellings/deformities on body or spine
20 Size/shape of abdomen/belly
21 Anus





If you find ANY abnormalities in ANY fish from the above checklist, please DESCRIBE the findings using the guidelines below. You'll know you've done a good job if anyone can read your description and picture the sick fish clearly in their head.

----Precise location of the problem( e.g upper left gill cover, bottom-centre of right eye, left pectoral fin etc. Use the following diagrams for anatomical locations if unsure)

-----Number ( e.g about 7 spots, one single area, 2 discrete areas

----Size( measuring 5mm in diameter, occupying about 50% of skin on head, 40% of the lower part of the caudal fin is gone, each about 2 by 4 mm in size

----Shape( round, circular, raised, nodular, flat, triangular, rectangular, linear,etc

----Colour( brown, red, pale green, creamy, white, translucent

----Consistency( rough, irregular, smooth, bumpy, appears soft, hard, spongy etc)

----Margins( well demarcated/discrete vs joining together/coalescing)

Also, what have u done so far??
oh....don't know about Baktopur....but it should b ok....
he actually doesn't look too bad from the pics
:D :D he might not even have a serious bacteria infection
lets hope for the best.

[Philip]

Hi Isna

1 Swimming pattern - Jerky, thrusting movement
2 Posture/position- ok
3 General colour- ok
4 Abnormal behaviour- open the mouth more than usually, oh no, forget to mention it to u, he tends to rub his body including gill plate against tank.
5 Appetite- begging for food
6 Faeces/poo- greynish, usually pinkish
7 Body condition- ok to me
8 Breathing( depth and rate)- ok
9 Barbels- as usually
10 Nostrils-ok
11 Mouth, jaws, teeth( if visible)-can't see
12 Eyes- ok
13 Skin and scales on head- some slight bruises on right gill plate
14 Gills( if visible)- can't see
15 Gill covers / operculum- ok
16 Skin and scales on body- scales ok except some skin tangling on the affected area( the reddish patch I had mention)
17 All fins- two weeks ago slight split in the tail fin, but recorvered
18 Lateral line - ok
19 Swellings/deformities on body or spine-no
20 Size/shape of abdomen/belly- ok
21 Anus- look ok

Hi again,

Qurious to find out if aro is not suffering from the suspected disease, is it ok for him if I had already pour in the medication.

Thanks

[Philip]

Hi Isna n aromedics

One last thing I really need to stress, when the aro swim, had observe that he suddenly jerks his head and open his mouth as though got a shock, this is quite often. Could it be the aro suffer from itch? Could occasionally saw the aro tilt his body side way to rub against wall of tank. Sorry for the trouble again.

[Isna]

Not a trouble at all Philip.
well, i'm glad u took some time to do a physical exam...

hehe. well, looks like we got it wrong. it's probably not, or shall i say, it's very likely not a bacterial septicaemia....we don't need the antibiotics any more. u can stop treating him for now...

how do we know this?? becasue of your picture and your effort in performing a physical exam.

The behavioural changes r probably due to skin irritation. he probably has some sort of skin infection. u said he opens his mouth more than usual......Is he breathing faster n harder??? or is his breathing ok?? just the occasional ' his head and open his mouth as though got a shock' as u've mentioned??

As long as he's breathing OK, then u should perform the following. so pls make sure he's not gasping etc.....gill function is very important and may b affected by skin diseases.

here's what i reckon u should do:

1) do a water change( to dilute drugs, dilute bugs shed, and improve water quality). i would do a 30% immediately, followed by say 25% 2 days later...

2) add salt( aquarium, rock...not table salt) at 2 generous tablespoons per 10L. ( this is about 0.3%) into the entire tank.

3) continue with your feeding etc... make sure he's healthy n eating fine.

his previous split fin, gill plate lesion n chest lesion r probably related. to kill any bugs, u should perform a salt bath.
i would do a salt bath as soon as possible.
esp since u've added drugs to your tank now, and water quality might change as a result of it..

here's the instructions.
good luck man. pls keep us updated on his progress.
some follow up pics might b good too
Cheers
:D

[Isna]

perform a salt dip. get a small container and fill it with some water from the tank. make sure u measure this amount of water. for every litre of water, add 20 grams of aquarium salt or rock salt( NOT table salt pls)( ( 80 grams per gal). so for eg, if u only used 500 ml of water, u only need 10 grams of salt.

stirr till the salt dissolves, and net the fish into this container. he might get excited initially, but should soon settle down. monitor him constantly. should he loose his balance, or become hyperexcited, immediately transfer him back into the tank. otherwise, leave him in the dip for a maximium of 30 mins. what this does is to eliminate all surface bugs on his skin. salt at this dose also stimulates protective mucus production. u might have to repeat this the following day.

u might want to consider treating all the other fishes once. salt dips r now a recommended routine procedure for quarantining fishes worldwide.
however, do be careful when dealing with tetras n corys/other catfishes. they may b more sensitive to salt at this dose. so the key thing is to MONITOR constantly. a dip as short as 5 - 10 mins is often better than none. i strongly recommend u perform it.

keep the water oxygenated( airstone ) if possible, n check constantly that he is responsive to stimuli( wave your hands above him to check his visual reflex. he should respond with a startle). if negative, try touching him gently with a finger. he should respond with his body, fins etc. as long as he responds n keeps breathing, he should stay in as long as possible within the 30 mins time limit. some fishes tend to lean on their sides and rest on the bottom, while others simply maintain a calm stationary position in midwater. whatever the case, as long as he is responsive, he'll b OK.

salt dips are highly effective against skin bugs, and remaining extremely safe to use. it has little residual effect on the fish, especially with regards to gill function.

[Philip]

Hi Isna

I start my message by saying thanks. Too late, I had pour in the second dosage of Baktopur as instruuted before going to work. Will do a water change once return. Saw the aro more active and swims around. Breathing was normal to me(35/min). Only to mention the sudden opening of his mouth, jerk his body and thrusting forward in fast pace. Btw, he is begging for food. Will keep you inform of the outome plus pic.

Thanks again

[Isna]

Too late, I had pour in the second dosage of Baktopur

that's ok bro....sure your aro wouldn't mind too much.

good to hear that his breathing appears normal. n begging for food......this is inconsistent with a bacterial septicaemia.

have u got water test kits?? ammonia, nitrite? good idea to monitor these levels over the next few weeks....just to check your filter hasn't been affected by the antibiotics.

have u figured out what's in baktopur? is there an instruction sheet in there? might say the active ingredient somewhere on that piece of paper;)

u're welcome mate. keep us informed.
:) cheers.

[Philip]

Hi Isna

Ingredient of Sera Baktopur, butylglycol - 8.1g
acriflavine - 209.7mg
methylene blue - 4.95mg
aqua purificata ad - 100 ml

For your info, aro looks more lively aft 35% water change(but water still greenish), begging for food, red patches seems to be fader, breathing normal. Will do a salt dip( no confident) aft a week. Will keep u update.
Thanks