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-   -   Singapore's First Documented Breeding: Pseudacanthicus Spinosus (http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377269)

SoToNgMaN 10-06-2009 11:13 AM

Singapore's First Documented Breeding: Pseudacanthicus Spinosus
 
First in Singapore, perhaps even Asia Pacific ... by chilicrabz

Discussion Source: http://www.plecoclub.org/forum/showthread.php?t=950

After two years of keeping solely spinosus (L160/L96), my spinosus managed to spawn. I would say it was just by chance and it would be a wonderful gift I ever received.

It all happens when I send my fishes to Aquarama for a week, and the cave that was occupied by one of them became vacant. This gave a chance for my Alpha Male to grab his opportunity to trap one of the females inside. The trapping was not consistent as how hypancistrus trap their mate for a few days. At most they were both inside the cave for 1-2 days before the female would escape. This Alpha Male had been sexually active with his ex-girlfriend but no success. Possibly due to the large number of occupants in the same 5ft tank.

The DAD:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...hiliz/3191.jpg

The Mum: Now
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...chiliz/317.jpg

The Mum: Before with previous owner
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...ha-before1.jpg

His Ex-girlfriend: so called L375
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...SNC00475-1.jpg

Alpha previous adventure with his ex-girlfriend:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...z/SNC00077.jpg

SoToNgMaN 10-06-2009 11:14 AM

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e.../SNC000780.jpg

The cave that they managed to spawn: thanks to akoh
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...hiliz/3041.jpg
* Note that the white stuffs are his sperm, they are not white shit.


31st May 2009:

Today is the day when I brought my 2 fishes back from Aquarama. Once I introduce them back to the tank, they seems so lost and others seems to have forgotten who they are.
The Alpha Dad who is trapping in the cave, came out to welcome them with a fight. They seems to be fighting for their territory again. It’s not just a one on one, but a gang fight of 4 adults males.
Fearing that my Alpha will get hurt and that might affect his trapping activities, I transferred him with his current mate and his ex-girlfriend into a 3ft IOS tank, using back the same cave that he occupies in my 5ft, making it a trio, 1M2F.
As I felt that the temperature is slightly higher in my 3ft tank, I placed a bag of ice cubes inside my tank to bring the temperature down.


1st June 2009:

In the morning, I have no time to check them out before I rushed for work. I assume that they will be fine and continue their daily activities. However at night, I received a call to rush home. I found a huge bunch of eggs in my tank, just right outside the cave.
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...hiliz/2941.jpg

Indeed, they have spawned. But why they are not in the cave??
Questions like:
Why didn’t the DAD take care of the eggs?
Why did the DAD suffered bite marks on its back?
Will the eggs get fertilized since they were not in the cave?
Such questions keep me scratching my head. I immediately transferred them into a floating hatchery, with just an air stone to keep them well-ventilated.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...hiliz/2961.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...hiliz/2971.jpg

SoToNgMaN 10-06-2009 11:16 AM

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...hiliz/2981.jpg

2nd June 2009: Day 01
Some casualties found in the hatchery. Bad ones are turning from clear-transparent to mustard-colour. I had to use a pipette to remove those bad ones.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...chiliz/302.jpg
*Note that the numbers of the eggs are getting lesser and lesser.

4th June 2009: Day 03
Due to some issues, the air stone fail to provide enough aeration to the hatchery. I estimated that more than half of eggs turn opaque. I decided to salvage the good ones into a small container instead of clearing away those bad ones. Those with their yolk burst, makes the hatchery so disgusting in sight.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...hiliz/3051.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...hiliz/3081.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...hiliz/3111.jpg

This is what is left, after I transferred those possible healthy ones. 34 eggs left. They have had their veins or tails formed inside the egg shells.

SoToNgMaN 10-06-2009 11:17 AM

5th June 2009: Day 04
More casualties, 28 were left in the morning at 0900hrs. Most of them have hatched from their shells. However, at 2300hrs, 7 left the group. Now, I left with 21 of them. Head and tails are formed.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...chiliz/312.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...chiliz/314.jpg

Examples of the fries that turned bad.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...chiliz/321.jpg
* I had to use a pipette to remove them. This is how it looks like, with the yolk and the spine forming (in red).
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...chiliz/322.jpg

SoToNgMaN 10-06-2009 11:18 AM

6th June 2009: Day 05
More casualties again, left with 17 wrigglers now. However, 3 of them are developing slower than the rest. I’m hoping to have a balance of 14 left.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...chiliz/326.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...chiliz/328.jpg
* Note that the mouth has formed and they attached themselves against strong current.
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...chiliz/330.jpg

SoToNgMaN 10-06-2009 11:18 AM

8th June 2009: Day 07
No casualty so far, still remains at 17 wrigglers. Not only their eyes and mouth are developed, I can notice their pectoral, dorsal and ventral fins are forming up.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...chiliz/337.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...chiliz/339.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...chiliz/340.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...chiliz/341.jpg

Some of their head are turning grayish and they were sticking onto the walls furiously.
Will update accordingly as they grow. To be Continued.....

SoToNgMaN 10-06-2009 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilicrabz
A special thanks to fellow hobbyists that makes this attempt possible.

Thanks to akoh, gecko, T1000, celticfish and johannes for your fishes, caves and valuable advices. Not forgetting others whom have also contributed their thoughts and theories. Lastly, to the great photographer, SotoNgMan, that went the extra mile to take some nice detailed pictures which will be posted soon.

Seeing this kind of post ... really stressed me to produce pics within the same nite ...

Pics taken couple of hours ago ..

http://www.watchsg.com/content/aquat...n/DSC_2376.jpg

http://www.watchsg.com/content/aquat...n/DSC_2377.jpg

http://www.watchsg.com/content/aquat...n/DSC_2378.jpg

http://www.watchsg.com/content/aquat...n/DSC_2379.jpg

http://www.watchsg.com/content/aquat...n/DSC_2381.jpg

SoToNgMaN 10-06-2009 11:20 AM

http://www.watchsg.com/content/aquat...n/DSC_2382.jpg

http://www.watchsg.com/content/aquat...n/DSC_2386.jpg

http://www.watchsg.com/content/aquat...n/DSC_2389.jpg

http://www.watchsg.com/content/aquat...n/DSC_2392.jpg

http://www.watchsg.com/content/aquat...n/DSC_2424.jpg

SoToNgMaN 10-06-2009 11:21 AM

http://www.watchsg.com/content/aquat...n/DSC_2433.jpg

Please try to keep this thread clean and refrain from putting single sentence "congrats"

Edmundo 10-06-2009 11:41 AM

SO when is the next updates? :D

http://www.watchsg.com/content/aquat...n/DSC_2433.jpg


Mama Left and Papa Right? If so the female seem a horny fellow wanting more......... :D

Young Man 10-06-2009 11:42 AM

congrats bro! :D
just some questions..
1-why din use some other hatching devices?since the eggs are so sensitive to water flow,maybe next time can try egg tumblers that tangan keepers use?
2-maybe next time if there are such cases whereby you are waiting for something to happen,just leave a video cam by the tank to record when you are not around?(provided you have one,even dun have,surely one of the bros here have i geuss)
just my thoughts (:
cheers!

johannes 10-06-2009 11:46 AM

those that produce stripes/coloration will develop in good health...

whereby few that have bloat-like symptom or dont develop like the rest, most probably won't make it....

nice!

NKS@211 10-06-2009 11:47 AM

Dear Sotong,

Good to see the eggs and the fries.
Very well documented indeed.

Cheers!!

cucumber 10-06-2009 11:51 AM

Congrats. I must say... AF members' photography skill really improved tremendously over the years. Great stuff. :D

TS70 10-06-2009 12:03 PM

BRAVO!!! bro chilicrabz!!!

u mentioned 'too many occupants' in the first post....so am i right to say that the number of pcs in breeding tank does play a vital part inthe success of breeding?

should we limit to say one alpha male to 2-3 females per breeding tank?

XRTG 10-06-2009 12:18 PM

Wow. Congrats. Must have had your heart beating so strongly when you saw the eggs =)

Titus 10-06-2009 12:18 PM

Excellent JOB bro Sotong!!! Quick go breed some QSHW!!! :)

HongJinBao 10-06-2009 12:29 PM

Very good job!! MX, when can go ur house see see har?:p

Repz 10-06-2009 12:32 PM

WOAHHH That is just amazing!
Thanks for sharing, that has to be the first large pleco breeding pair in a tank.

I always thought that this task was impossible, you sure proved me wrong.

HeiYuEr 10-06-2009 12:34 PM

nice....bro chillicrab.

u make us feel so proud in pleco keeping now.

may i ask.....so all this started when u first intro that cave into the tank??....previously no such cave in the tank right??or all the while this setup by yours already plan into some breeding project?

and last your post on this - The cave that they managed to spawn: thanks to akoh

so is the old man cave that they manage to do it :D

nw old man can start selling cave liao :o

TRIX 10-06-2009 12:37 PM

YOur patience paid off big time, bro chilicrabz!!

Now you are making Singapore proud with your little new spikes!!;)

HeiYuEr 10-06-2009 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Repz (Post 6946609)
WOAHHH That is just amazing!
Thanks for sharing, that has to be the first large pleco breeding pair in a tank.

I always thought that this task was impossible, you sure proved me wrong.


yes....exactly on my thought too.

while keeping plecos for so long.....i nv tot that large pleco like this could breed in a big comm tank too....esp we are talking abt pseudas family type :eek:

lincolngoh 10-06-2009 12:45 PM

Wow.. congrats.. an unexpected gift from Aquarama... just the little change you needed.

conchabullosa 10-06-2009 01:07 PM

Wow, great stuff this mating in caves and surrogate parenting drama. Brings a tear to my eyes.
Congratulations to Bro chilicrabz and great photography by sotongman!

Ken_wen 10-06-2009 01:20 PM

Steady la bro, congrats!! After all that laughing and disturbing , you have finally done it!!:D

chilicrabz 10-06-2009 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johannes (Post 6946483)
those that produce stripes/coloration will develop in good health...
whereby few that have bloat-like symptom or dont develop like the rest, most probably won't make it....
nice!

There is around 3 with the bloat-like symptoms but then i expect them to be gone by now, but they are still wriggling leh...can bear myself to pipette them live.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TS70 (Post 6946524)
BRAVO!!! bro chilicrabz!!!
u mentioned 'too many occupants' in the first post....so am i right to say that the number of pcs in breeding tank does play a vital part inthe success of breeding?
should we limit to say one alpha male to 2-3 females per breeding tank?

Possible, for my case, i transfer a trio down to a 3ft tank, when i have confirm a pair. Actually the parents are already trapping in the 5ft, but based on his previous activities with the "375" and no success, i guess the number of occupants plays a part.

In fact, straight after the pair has spawn, the "375" wanted the Male to pair with her too, keep biting on his back. Think, that makes him so stress that the whole bunch of eggs were kicked out of the cave.
So having a trio may not be a good option too. If tanks size allows, i would go for 2M3F.


Quote:

Originally Posted by HongJinBao (Post 6946600)
Very good job!! MX, when can go ur house see see har?:p

When they grow bigger and become free swimming lor....

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeiYuEr (Post 6946614)
nice....bro chillicrab.
u make us feel so proud in pleco keeping now.
may i ask.....so all this started when u first intro that cave into the tank??....previously no such cave in the tank right??or all the while this setup by yours already plan into some breeding project?

and last your post on this - The cave that they managed to spawn: thanks to akoh
so is the old man cave that they manage to do it :D
nw old man can start selling cave liao :o

I took the caves from akoh, think 1 year plus ago or 2. Cant remember the actual date. Think its a few weeks after the AGM.
His cave is the one that is shown in the pic, is where the pair spawn in. I think the measurement is so nice that most of the other fishes like to park there. Had no choice, gotta put them to good home before i can go solely on spinosus.

Maybe he can start lelong liao, for fishes that is no more than 11inch length and 3.5inch width.:D:D

L046 10-06-2009 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeiYuEr (Post 6946614)
may i ask.....so all this started when u first intro that cave into the tank??....previously no such cave in the tank right??or all the while this setup by yours already plan into some breeding project?

and last your post on this - The cave that they managed to spawn: thanks to akoh

so is the old man cave that they manage to do it

nw old man can start selling cave liao :o

Hello ! Hello ! what old man ! still very young at heart leh !

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilicrabz (Post 6946715)
I took the caves from akoh, think 1 year plus ago or 2. Cant remember the actual date. Think its a few weeks after the AGM.
His cave is the one that is shown in the pic, is where the pair spawn in. I think the measurement is so nice that most of the other fishes like to park there. Had no choice, gotta put them to good home before i can go solely on spinosus.

Maybe he can start lelong liao, for fishes that is no more than 11inch length and 3.5inch width.:D:D

MX, reckon it is less than a year leh, lai ! lai ! lelong ! lelong ! only available in PlecoHut ! ! ! whilst stock last ! :D

AND that is not all ! caves ( and information ) for panaque and xanto are also available ! all DIY by this "old man" ! :D

johannes 10-06-2009 02:15 PM

when can i bring 1 mini spike home ah...??:D

let them be first, dont pipette them live la...:eek:

Edmundo 10-06-2009 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titus (Post 6946565)
Excellent JOB bro Sotong!!! Quick go breed some QSHW!!! :)

Help me find a female? :D

chilicrabz 10-06-2009 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L046 (Post 6946739)
MX, reckon it is less than a year leh, lai ! lai ! lelong ! lelong ! only available in PlecoHut ! ! ! whilst stock last ! :D

can i order 2 from u again? haha.

Tustar 10-06-2009 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilicrabz (Post 6947028)
can i order 2 from u again? haha.

grats bro.

hope to see more waves of breeding come along :D

will u be isolating the pair in a tank solely fr themselves?

L046 10-06-2009 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilicrabz (Post 6947028)
can i order 2 from u again? haha.

For mass production ? :D :D

Titus 10-06-2009 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edmundo (Post 6946868)
Help me find a female? :D

Very hard to find le... maybe in TW got chance? hehehe.... Pls must have $$$ power wor...

NEWBIEARO 10-06-2009 04:16 PM

congrats to bro chillicrab
finally ur hard work has paid off:)

KAO LUO 10-06-2009 04:17 PM

congrats bro

chilicrabz 10-06-2009 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tustar (Post 6947040)
grats bro.

hope to see more waves of breeding come along :D

will u be isolating the pair in a tank solely fr themselves?

Now this pair is already all by themselves in a 3ft. Me now going to have a shortage of tanks when the fries grows up. another spawn frm them, me cfm headache.

TRIX 10-06-2009 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilicrabz (Post 6947236)
Now this pair is already all by themselves in a 3ft. Me now going to have a shortage of tanks when the fries grows up. another spawn frm them, me cfm headache.

Why worry when there is a short of demand for pseudas now:D

chilicrabz 10-06-2009 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L046 (Post 6947050)
For mass production ? :D :D

Thought u still have some at home?
Mass production, we discuss again over pm.

dinotoh 10-06-2009 05:32 PM

congratulation bro chilicrabz and thanks to sotong the man for the great photos...

Tustar 10-06-2009 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilicrabz (Post 6947236)
Now this pair is already all by themselves in a 3ft. Me now going to have a shortage of tanks when the fries grows up. another spawn frm them, me cfm headache.

keep the f1 once f2 onwards mayb u can do selective keeping :p

love to see how they look like once they are bigger


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