When or Why do reds turn RED?

[vic]

hope the above is useful in convincing light plays important part in the development of colours.

As for the main topic...I think john cover its rather well...simple and easy to understand.

[vic]

Originally Posted by kagemaru

nope golds are also the same...most golds will not cross in the river...so that its predators will not be able to easily spot them...only certain areas of the river system where u could see one or two of them which is brightly colored...

higher or lower evolution have no bearing here

nami green's color doesn't seem very plain to me...they are still green...but have different set of patterns --> which are attractive in their own ways

u have already mentioned natural habitat, environment and predators --> camouflage or dominance?...its actually up to the red itself...sometimes its becauses of the contents of the water as we discussed...sometimes its about being the king of the pack...u got to be differnt to lead...

err....not quite true leh....most of the XB I seen in farms do cross...it apply for my own XB ponds too, althu one or two does show a reduce in crossing after placing them inside.

Maybe got other reasons...

Originally Posted by vic

hope the above is useful in convincing light plays important part in the development of colours.

As for the main topic...I think john cover its rather well...simple and easy to understand.

yes ur results findings were similar to some experiment done on marine fishes in Japan...light sensitivity and the nature tendency of photoprotective coating towards UVB have a part to play in lightings...

all these being said...there is a consequential problem on the color tat was enhanced through the use of lighting....which is why I deliberately avoided elaborating on the effectiveness of light on changing colors --> to push color with light, different wavelengths has diff results...end of the day we were able to throw it to its limits...but towards a general "holding" capability of the results is a mamoth task...this is till now subjective based on the various research object

Originally Posted by vic

err....not quite true leh....most of the XB I seen in farms do cross...it apply for my own XB ponds too, althu one or two does show a reduce in crossing after placing them inside.

Maybe got other reasons...

I am referring to natural habitat...the waters in farms for XB are probably different...I have no links with Panda or other farms to do detail check on the water parameters...

but XB under pond conditions do exhibit a reduction of shine (or darkened tops)

anyway I know nuts about XB...maybe got to check with bro Kamisan and ZMT...they would be in better position to answer on XB...

[vic]

Originally Posted by kagemaru

yes ur results findings were similar to some experiment done on marine fishes in Japan...light sensitivity and the nature tendency of photoprotective coating towards UVB have a part to play in lightings...

all these being said...there is a consequential problem on the color tat was enhanced through the use of lighting....which is why I deliberately avoided elaborating on the effectiveness of light on changing colors --> to push color with light, different wavelengths has diff results...end of the day we were able to throw it to its limits...but towards a general "holding" capability of the results is a mamoth task...this is till now subjective based on the various research object

Well what u said is partically true....since they are all external factors...but we do also have to consider as they are kept in our tanks which is man made...we will have to try to provide all necessary stimulant they face in their nature environment...and light is one of them.

Gene apart..have u consider that the development of colour on red aro could be also partically due to sunlight stimulant over time?? Such that by the time they reach mature stage of their life that they achieve their colour (whatever their composition is)

Originally Posted by vic

Well what u said is partically true....since they are all external factors...but we do also have to consider as they are kept in our tanks which is man made...we will have to try to provide all necessary stimulant they face in their nature environment...and light is one of them.

Gene apart..have u consider that the development of colour on red aro could be also partically due to sunlight stimulant over time?? Such that by the time they reach mature stage of their life that they achieve their colour (whatever their composition is)

partly could be due to sunlight...but there are some juvenile reds which are sighted in our waters which displayed red even those washed up the shores of the reservoir have shown some colors which are quite impossible to achieve in tank condition (uncontrolled)

Light with 6500k (closer to sunlight) have little impact compared to the other color temp I have tested...other ranges reacted better IMO...6500k is abit slow...fade at the same rate though

Originally Posted by kagemaru

Cannot say wrong...partial correct

CAMOUFLAGE COLORS...followed by a release of stress when they are placed in tank...due to the elimination of their predators..hence colors showed up

is this also the case why pond red will never exhbit their intense redness compare to tank enviroment...

remember bro Keane ever commented that his kali red which was red turned brown in an outdoor pond

[vic]

Originally Posted by kagemaru

I am referring to natural habitat...the waters in farms for XB are probably different...I have no links with Panda or other farms to do detail check on the water parameters...

but XB under pond conditions do exhibit a reduction of shine (or darkened tops)

anyway I know nuts about XB...maybe got to check with bro Kamisan and ZMT...they would be in better position to answer on XB...

Not juz panda....farms I have visited include...Lake Ocean, Kim Kang, SABF, DFI, Max, and a couple of other malaysian farms too.

All these show...what I mentioned earlier...full crossing...with a couple (1-2) showing almost full crossing...with Kim Kang, Sian long the most impressive...i.e. the intensive gold and shine.

Most of them uses spring water or river water...not unlike their nature habitat...

So there must be other reason.

[winkelhock]

Originally Posted by kagemaru

partly could be due to sunlight...but there are some juvenile reds which are sighted in our waters which displayed red even those washed up the shores of the reservoir have shown some colors which are quite impossible to achieve in tank condition (uncontrolled)

Light with 6500k (closer to sunlight) have little impact compared to the other color temp I have tested...other ranges reacted better IMO...6500k is abit slow...fade at the same rate though

Ed so how many Ks are good enough....12,000K??

the color of red I would perceived as having 2 aspects of stimulants:

Internal:
Hormones/pheromones generation
or neurological glands which could alters the composition of the chromatophores

External:
Use of equipment or water conditions to allow max stimulation of scales

colors in the genetic terms are almost similar to the Fats in humans

Some ppl are born fat (cos alot of fat cells around...drink water also fat...metabolism too slow to burn off excess fats/glucose )

Some ppl have little fat cells and even when they eat alot, their metabolism is able to assist them to burn off the excess fats...this is likened as a hormone stimulation which determines the body shape IMO is similar to a Red's coloration change