Arofanatics Fish Talk Forums  

Go Back   Arofanatics Fish Talk Forums > The Guildhouse > Chatterbox > Singapore Politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 21-08-2011, 03:36 PM   #31
koijunior
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mictok View Post
....Frankly when I look at this highlighted statement,my opinion is that TJS need to really think thru to rephrase his statement.He cant pinpoint base on some known facts and make a statement out of it...
Last time , the ex-PM Goh Chok Tong accused Tang Liang Hong of being an anti-Christian and anti-Muslim Chinese chauvinist, and the later got sued until have to fled out of Singapore forever. Where are the facts and evidences ???

Politic is a dirty business... facts can always be fabricated if you are in power.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2011, 04:08 PM   #32
smellyfish
Dragon
 
smellyfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 622
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by koijunior View Post
Last time , the ex-PM Goh Chok Tong accused Tang Liang Hong of being an anti-Christian and anti-Muslim Chinese chauvinist, and the later got sued until have to fled out of Singapore forever. Where are the facts and evidences ???

Politic is a dirty business... facts can always be fabricated if you are in power.
tang liang hong fled because of tax investigations. IRAS sent down officers at 3 am to his house...
smellyfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2011, 04:28 PM   #33
mictok
Dragon
 
mictok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by koijunior View Post
Last time , the ex-PM Goh Chok Tong accused Tang Liang Hong of being an anti-Christian and anti-Muslim Chinese chauvinist, and the later got sued until have to fled out of Singapore forever. Where are the facts and evidences ???

Politic is a dirty business... facts can always be fabricated if you are in power.
That is the fact that I am trying to bring out,this business need to be master with the art of talking,so many ppl proven in history trying to prove freedom of speech end up pack up and run.
Look at JBJ,Dr Chee and compare them with Chiam and Low that survive thru the years,these are the difference in the way they talk and respond to matters under pressure.
Somehow I still think that TJS act too much like opposition until look like he is going to wack up ruling party in his own agenda and vision if he is elected.
mictok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2011, 04:36 PM   #34
loveikan
Arofanatic
 
loveikan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 384
Default

Pardon me please.

Though I do like TJS but somehow find his demeanors are not suitable for a President.
loveikan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2011, 05:12 PM   #35
loveikan
Arofanatic
 
loveikan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 384
Default

I will just switch off whenever I hear / see TT speeches / videos about him. I simply just cannot resist because already know his answers - An SOP!.
loveikan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2011, 05:23 PM   #36
loveikan
Arofanatic
 
loveikan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mictok View Post
That is the fact that I am trying to bring out,this business need to be master with the art of talking,so many ppl proven in history trying to prove freedom of speech end up pack up and run.
Look at JBJ,Dr Chee and compare them with Chiam and Low that survive thru the years,these are the difference in the way they talk and respond to matters under pressure.
Somehow I still think that TJS act too much like opposition until look like he is going to wack up ruling party in his own agenda and vision if he is elected.
He somehow has to choose his words wisely. Unless he want to promote certain issues now he is having a wider coverage because of the EP and also thinking that he might not win the election.

But having so, who would stand up for election with a thought of not winning it.

Anyway, personally if I am him, would not talk too much on ISA now during the campaign.

Wait till elected in then can has a higher chance to do some proposals.
loveikan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2011, 01:50 AM   #37
mictok
Dragon
 
mictok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveikan View Post
He somehow has to choose his words wisely. Unless he want to promote certain issues now he is having a wider coverage because of the EP and also thinking that he might not win the election.

But having so, who would stand up for election with a thought of not winning it.

Anyway, personally if I am him, would not talk too much on ISA now during the campaign.

Wait till elected in then can has a higher chance to do some proposals.
Agreed.
I like his passion to make changes but some time over zealous will cause back fire.
Certain topics like ISA and GLC is not a simple task to take on for changes being the President is single handed compared to the ruling party where they have a group to think tank to branstorm these policies.
Least I want a President that keep clashing with ruling party,leave the task to the opposition party and just be a President as whom he supposed to be.
This presdiential election may not suit him after all,I will prefer to see him go under WP humbly to get the opportunity to get into the parliment or back to SDP to get his next shot in 4 yrs time.
mictok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2011, 02:46 AM   #38
Aris
Arofanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by koijunior View Post
Last time , the ex-PM Goh Chok Tong accused Tang Liang Hong of being an anti-Christian and anti-Muslim Chinese chauvinist, and the later got sued until have to fled out of Singapore forever. Where are the facts and evidences ???
I take the liberty of copy/paste somebody's posts to consider whether Tang Liang Hong had been persecuted.

TONY TAN ALSO SUING TANG FOR DEFAMING HIM IN REPORT.
25 January 1997

DEPUTY Prime Minister Tony Tan is also suing Mr Tang Liang Hong for defaming him in a police report he made on Jan 1.

This is the seventh defamation suit that has been filed against the defeated Workers' Party candidate by People's Action Party leaders and members.

Dr Tan, who is also Defence Minister, gave notice of his legal action in an advertisement published in The Straits Times yesterday.

Mr Tang, who is in London, has eight days to enter an appearance at the Registry of the High Court if he wants to defend himself.

If he does not, judgment may be made against him, warned Dr Tan's lawyers, Wong Partnership. Dr Tan is claiming damages and costs.

Copies of the Writ have been posted on the Supreme Court notice board and on the front door of Mr Tang's home in Hua Guan Avenue.

On Wednesday, Deputy Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and Trade and Industry Minister-elect Lee Yock Suan also initiated defamation action against the 61-year-old lawyer over his police report.

The report was against 11 PAP leaders who had alleged that the WP man was an anti-Christian, anti-English-educated Chinese chauvinist, who could cause social and racial disharmony.

In his report, made at Kreta Ayer neighbourhood police post, Mr Tang said that their allegations and statements were groundless and were intended to harm his reputation and to defame him.

He also claimed that their actions and statements were likely to "incite religious extremists to hate me and cause harm to me and members of my family".

The PAP leaders had also challenged and provoked him repeatedly to make public statements which they said might cause social disorder in Singapore, he added.

The suits over Mr Tang's police report are separate from the three defamation actions by PM Goh, SM Lee, and six other PAP members for his comment that they had concocted lies against him.

He is also being sued by SM Lee and DPM Lee for his comments in the Hongkong-based magazine Yazhou Zhoukan about discounts on HPL apartments sold to the Lees last year.

THE SUITS AGAINST TANG
6 February 1997

More than a dozen lawsuits have been filed against defeated Workers' Party candidate Tang Liang Hong by leaders and members of the People's Action Party. WALTER FERNANDEZ of the Political Desk gives an overview.

Who's suing

Mr Tang faces some 13 defamation suits, brought against him by 11 PAP men.

They are:

Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong

Senior Minister Lee Kuan Yew

Deputy Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong

Deputy Prime Minister Tony Tan

Trade and Industry Minister Lee Yock Suan

Education Minister Teo Chee Hean

Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon

Dr Ow Chin Hock

Mr Chin Harn Tong

Dr Ker Sin Tze

Mr Seng Han Thong

The alleged defamations ... and the lawsuits

Criminals and liars On PAP politicians calling him an anti-Christian Chinese chauvinist: "I am going to lodge a police report against them for criminal offence. They are telling lies. They are defaming, assassinating my character. They concocted lies and go on television and spread the lies." - Interview, The Straits Times, Dec 31.

He was referring to PM Goh, SM Lee, R-Adm Teo, Mr Ch'ng, Dr Ow, Mr Chin, Dr Ker and Mr Seng.

Lawsuits: 3 PAP politicians say his comments were a grave and serious slander and libel, calculated to disparage their character and integrity.

Abusing the court process Mr Tang applied to the courts to have the first three lawsuits against him struck out as they were an abuse to court process. He said the lawsuit against him for calling the PAP leaders liars were being used as a political weapon to "bury him politically and financially". The courts dismissed the application.

Lawsuits: 3 PM Goh, SM Lee and six other PAP members are suing him for accusing them of abusing the court process.

Use of Internal Security Act In a telephone interview published on Jan 11, Mr Tang said he might be "locked up and not be given a chance to defend myself". When told that that Mr Goh had said that he would not be arrested under the ISA, Mr Tang laughed and said: "Is that so? I have not heard about it. Do you think I should believe him?" He added: "Many years ago, there was some problem at Nanyang University, Lee Kuan Yew told the students that there was nothing to fear. But some of them were arrested a few days later."

Lawsuits: 2 PM Goh and SM Lee have sued him for slander and libel over his remarks, which they say, questioned their integrity and gravely injured their character and reputation.

Police reports Apart from his comments at rallies and in the press, the WP man also filed two police reports on Jan 1, the eve of Polling Day. In the first, he asked for police protection. In the second, he lodged complaints against 11 PAP politicians for leading the public to believe that he was an anti-Christian Chinese chauvinist and anti-English-educated. Their actions and statements, he said, were also likely "to incite religious extremists to hate me and cause harm to me and members of my family".

Lawsuits: 3 The second police report led to him being sued for defamation by three of the PAP men named: BG Lee, Dr Tony Tan and Mr Lee Yock Suan.

HPL discounts On discounts received by SM Lee and DPM Lee for HPL condominiums: "This matter should be passed to the Commercial Affairs Department or Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau. Their reports will be more convincing to the public." - Interview, Yazhou Zhoukan, June 1996. The magazine apologised to the Lees. But Mr Tang refused to. At three election rallies on Dec 31, he told the crowds that he would raise the HPL issue if elected and that this was why the Lees wanted to keep him out of Parliament.

Lawsuits: 2 The Lees sued for defamation last September for his remarks in the magazine article. They filed a fresh suit in January for his rally remarks.

Action ...

See you later Mr Tang left Singapore for Johor just days after the Jan 2 General Election, saying he feared for his safety and was concerned that he would be arrested under the ISA.

From there he went to Kuala Lumpur, Hongkong and London, where he said he was preparing documents to refute the PAP charges and consulting his Queen's Counsel.

... and reaction

Mareva injuction PAP leaders and their lawyers, believing that Mr Tang did not plan to return home, asked the court to grant a worldwide injunction freezing his assets. Under the injunction, the Tangs have to set aside S$11.2 million for possible damages and legal costs if they sell their assets. His wife, Madam Teo Siew Har, is also subject to the injunction because the courts accepted that assets in her name could belong to him.
J.B. Jeyaretnam also sued ...

See this He is alleged to have shown a rally crowd copies of the police reports Mr Tang had made against the 11 PAP men. He told the crowd that Mr Tang, had "just placed before me two reports he has made to the police against, you know, Mr Goh Chok Tong and his team."

Lawsuits: 8 PAP leaders are suing him for drawing the public's attention to Mr Tang's allegations and in so doing, endosing Mr Tang's allegations that they were guilty of criminal defamation.

PAP LEADERS WANT S$12.9M IN DAMAGES

8 May 1997

THE 11 People's Action Party leaders, who won 13 defamation lawsuits against Mr Tang Liang Hong, have asked the High Court to award them a total of S$12.9 million in exemplary and aggravated damages.

Prime Minister Mr Goh Chok Tong has sought a total of S$2.15 million in his three suits against the Workers' Party member.

This amount includes S$1 million for the suit in which Mr Tang called him a liar and made other defamatory remarks. It is the highest figure asked for in the 13 suits against the WP man.

Senior Minister Mr Lee Kuan Yew, who sued Mr Tang five times, has asked for a total of S$3.35 million. Two of his suits are joint actions with Deputy Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong over Mr Tang's remarks on their purchases of Hotel Properties Limited (HPL) apartments.

DPM Lee, who has a total of three suits, is claiming S$2.1 million.

Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Dr Tony Tan and Trade and Industry Minister Lee Yock Suan are pressing for S$600,000 and $550,000 respectively for each of their suits.

Education and Second Defence Minister, Rear-Admiral (NS) Teo Chee Hean, and each of the five other plaintiffs filed two joint suits.

RAdm (NS) Teo is asking for S$900,000. Each of the other five PAP men - Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon, Dr Ow Chin Hock, Mr Chin Harn Tong, Dr Ker Sin Tze and Mr Seng Han Thong - are claiming S$650,000.

The list of damages sought was presented to the High Court yesterday by Mr Davinder Singh, the lawyer for SM Lee.

He and Mr Harry Elias, counsel for RAdm (NS) Teo, Mr Ch'ng, Dr Ow, Mr Chin, Dr Ker and Mr Seng, argued that the damages sought were justified since the case was unprecedented, given that Mr Tang had shown malice, aggravated and repeated the defamation, and abused the court process.

"We have also considered previous awards," Mr Singh said. "But only for the purpose of demonstrating that the gravity of the charges, the malice and the aggravation in these actions are in an entirely different orbit."

Even if the leaders were unable to recover the full amount from Mr Tang, the awarding of substantial damages by the court would vindicate them, he said.

"Singapore has been built on the integrity of the men who have appeared before Your Honour. These men went onto the stand ready to subject their integrity to a gruelling test.

"But the defendant shrank from the battle. The quality of the plaintiffs' evidence remains untarnished."

Mr Tang had called Mr Lee and the other PAP leaders liars when they labelled him an anti-Christian Chinese chauvinist during the campaigning for the General Election in January.

But he "fled with his tail between his legs" to "spirit his assets away" and avoid being questioned in court on his extremist views on Chinese education, language and culture, Mr Singh said.

""His conduct from Dec 28 till today is consistent only with an admission that he is a chauvinist, has lied, and is unable to mount any defence in fact, or in law, on the issues of liability and damages," he added.

He had no doubt, he said, that the defendant would continue to attack the plaintiffs and remain outside Singapore's jurisdiction.

Speaking later, Mr Elias argued that the sums awarded for defamation here in the past had been too lenient. He cited several cases in which English, Australian and Malaysian courts had awarded hefty damages for defamation.

British footballer Graeme Souness, for example, won 750,000 in 1995 against publisher MGN Ltd after one of its newspapers called him a "tight-fisted dirty rat".

Mr Elias argued that the case against Mr Tang was more serious as he had attacked some of Singapore's top leaders.

He told Justice Chao Hick Tin: "You have had in your court the Prime Minister, two Deputy Prime Ministers, a mayor and Members of Parliament. We have not seen anything like that for a long time, and hopefully it will be a long time before it happens again."

The hearing continues today with more closing submissions by the lawyers for the other PAP men.

PM, 10 OTHER PAP MEMBERS SUING JEYA

1 February 1997

THE Prime Minister and 10 other PAP leaders and members are suing Mr J. B. Jeyaretnam for allegedly defaming them at a Workers' Party rally on the eve of Polling Day on Jan 1.

They are claiming that he used words to allege that they were guilty of criminal defamation and conspiracy and lacked honesty and integrity.

All the 11 plaintiffs are claiming aggravated damages from the leader of the Workers' Party who offered to apologise to them, but denied that the words he used were defamatory.

The plaintiffs are Mr Goh Chok Tong; Mr Lee Kuan Yew; Dr Tony Tan; BG (NS) Lee Hsien Loong; Rear-Admiral (NS) Teo Chee Hean; Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon; Dr Ow Chin Hock; Mr Seng Han Tong; Mr Lee Yock Suan; Mr Chin Harn Tong and Dr Ker Sin Tze.

According to the statement of claim of Rear-Admiral Teo and Mr Ch'ng, Mr Jeyaretnam had told the Jan 1 rally: "Finally, Mr Tang Liang Hong has just placed before me two reports he has made to the police against, you know, Mr Goh Chok Tong and his team."

They also noted that when Mr Jeyaretnam spoke those words, he held up the police reports or documents purporting to be police reports.

The manner in which he spoke was calculated to work up the emotions of the audience, it said, adding that the defendant could not have believed the truth of the allegations in one of the two police reports.

The publication of his words resulted in the press procuring copies of the two reports filed by Mr Tang on Jan 1. In one report, he alleged that a number of ministers and MPs had committed a criminal conspiracy to defame him.

The full text of both reports was published in the New Paper on Jan 2 and The Straits Times on Jan 3, the statement said, adding: "The defendant published the words knowing that they were untrue, alternatively reckless as to whether they were true or false."

Mr Tang, who was Mr Jeyaretnam's WP team-mate in Cheng San GRC, told The Straits Times in an interview earlier that he would sue the PAP leaders and members and lodge a police report against them for calling him an anti-Christian Chinese chauvinist.

He named Rear-Admiral Teo who said on Dec 26 that Mr Tang complained at a dinner in 1994 that there were too many Christians and English-educated permanent secretaries and people in the Cabinet.

Both Rear-Admiral Teo and Mr Ch'ng criticised his views on Chinese language and culture during the hustings. Their comments and Mr Tang's interview with The Straits Times were published in the local press.

The plaintiffs are relying on the inference that the people at the Jan 1 rally would have known of the matters set above.

They would also have known that Mr Jeyaretnam's reference to the two police reports was in relation to the allegations of criminal conduct against the plaintiffs.

The statement of claim by Rear-Admiral Teo and Mr Ch'ng said: "The words, in the context in which they were published, in their natural and ordinary meaning, meant and were understood to mean that the plaintiffs have committed and were guilty of committing criminal offences."

They also argued that the words, by way of innuendo, bore and were understood to bear the meanings that the plaintiffs had committed and were guilty of criminal defamation and criminal conspiracy.

The other innuendo was that they had a defect in character and lacked honesty and integrity, the statement said, adding that Mr Jeyaretnam knew his words would be published and was liable for their publication in The Straits Times and Business Times on Jan 2.

They were calculated to disparage the profession or office of the plaintiffs who were gravely injured in their character, integrity and reputation and were brought into public scandal, odium and contempt.

The plaintiffs also said that Mr Jeyaretnam had made the remark to enhance his chances of becoming a Member of Parliament for Cheng San GRC.

WORLDWIDE COURT INJUNCTION TAKEN OUT AGAINST TANG AND WIFE


28 January 1997


THE Prime Minister, the Senior Minister and nine other PAP members have obtained a worldwide injunction to prevent Mr Tang Liang Hong from disposing of his assets if he has to pay for damages and legal costs in their defamation suits against him.

Under the Mareva injunction, which Justice Lai Kew Chai approved yesterday, Mr Tang will have to set aside up to S$11.2 million for possible damages and legal costs if he decides to liquidate his assets.

The injunction applies to Mr Tang, the defeated Workers' Party election candidate, as well as his wife, Madam Teo Siew Har.

A one-page statement from the lawyers for Mr Goh Chok Tong and the other PAP members issued at 11.15 last night said:

"Justice Lai Kew Chai has given his approval today to an order of court dated Jan 27 for a worldwide Mareva injunction and ancillary action up to the value of S$11.2 million in the actions of Messrs Goh Chok Tong, Lee Kuan Yew, BG Lee Hsien Loong, Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam, Teo Chee Hean, Ch'ng Jit Koon, Ow Chin Hock, Chin Harn Tong, Ker Sin Tze, Seng Han Thong and Lee Yock Suan against Tang Liang Hong and Madam Teo Siew Har (Mrs Tang).

"Justice Lai also made the following orders:

* Madam Teo be joined as a joint defendant in the above actions.

* Madam Teo enter an appearance within eight days of the service of the amended writs of summons in the above action.

* Madam Teo be exempted from filing a defence in the above actions.

* Leave be granted for the plaintiff to serve a combined order.

"If Mr Tang and/or Madam Teo neglect to obey the order of the court, they will be liable to a process of execution, including committal proceeding for the purposes of compelling them to obey the same."

The statement comes soon after Mr Tang told reporters from London last Thursday that he was selling his properties in Singapore and Malaysia to fight the lawsuits filed against him by PAP ministers and members.

This includes his family bungalow in Hua Guan Avenue, in the prime residential Bukit Timah district.

Property agents estimate the 8,000 sq ft bungalow to be worth between $4.5 million and S$5 million, based on a conservative estimate of S$600 per sq ft. Mr Tang has said that he had entrusted the sale of his properties in both countries to his law firm.

He has declined to say how many houses he owns, but sources in the real estate sector have said that he owns a number of houses and several pieces of land in Malaysia.


Aris Notes: Hope this gives a better insight into what happened to Tang Liang Hong. He is now residing in Australia with his wife and he is fine. If you want past statements made by Tony Tan on our wages, CPF and Healthcare, I can post them. They are all from our local MSM.
Aris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2011, 11:23 AM   #39
kuay5
Dragon
 
kuay5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,753
Default

I think the ISA topic was raised by a member of the public during the Q&A right? So they were just responding to a question.
kuay5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2011, 02:12 PM   #40
loveikan
Arofanatic
 
loveikan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuay5 View Post
I think the ISA topic was raised by a member of the public during the Q&A right? So they were just responding to a question.
Yes, a lady who represented a Human Rights Organization.

So TJS did not deliberating raised the ISA issue.
loveikan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +9. The time now is 08:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2000-2008 Arofanatics.com (Since 30th August 2000)