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Old 19-07-2011, 08:33 PM   #41
uluaking
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Originally Posted by azon View Post
1. Spots should be white even when young pups....

It is always encouraged to buy rays when they are conditioned. Conditioned means stable when stable down the pups will enhance its base color and spots. For PDR/Black Diamond, the spots MUST be white in color. 6 inches and above pups are deemed white spotted. Should not be any yellowish spot throught the whole body.

I disagree on the above..
1) If the pup have a slow growth rate or stunted than the spot are damn white even though it's only 5".. (you will know when you find that after eating a lot but still not growing fast)

2) 6" and above pups can still have yellow spots on the centre cos I have bred and grow more than 70pcs pure PDR pups till 8" before selling off.

From my experiences if the grow rate is fast than the yellow spots on the centre wouldn't disappear that fast. It's take about 3 to 4 months for PURE PDR to be completely white in the centre.

Just my 2 cents..
yup agree bro... what i mean that throughout the whole body .....
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Old 19-07-2011, 08:51 PM   #42
Luc
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Originally Posted by ap99 View Post

Hi all bro this pup is what I produce recently and both parent are of wild caught BD and this is not the first batch of pup they produce only this one came out like that so what's your say dear bros in AF,... Even I did not tot I can have such pup

Oh btw this pup is with bro williamt sorry to use this pic only for info niar cheers
Bro...are the parents ti?
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Old 19-07-2011, 09:06 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Lester View Post
Hi All,

IMO we should not go too deep and detail to define what is a "Black Diamond" because at this point of time it is still P13. I will read Bro Ularking sharing as his experience in what most ray keeper prefer while selecting a so call "Black Diamond" ray. I just feel that it is still not right to term those as characteristics of BD. I had seen many stunning specimen that are called BD and yet do not match what was mentioned above. In my heart they are show grade P13

Like what many members here had mentioned, see it, appreciate it, buy it. You think it is one with high potnetial? Go for it and enjoy the grooming plus anticipation.

Bro Ularking, really need to thank you for sharing and bringing up this very interesting topic. This is the fun part about keeping blackies.... Cheers
totally agree with bro Lester on this.
if really go into detail, have to do tagging liao.

There are different schools of thought here and everyone is learning from each other. But we are lucky cos we have senior bros here to share. I would like to say: thank you all. u made my hobby fun and meaningful.

cheers
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Old 19-07-2011, 11:05 PM   #44
ap99
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Bro...are the parents ti?
no! mama is a eclips papa is a regular BD with some donut on top,...before this pc the pups all regular type lor

below is another pup that has odd spot from different parent,....so theres no saying on BD must have this must have that than call pure lah,...I feel once in a blue moon there pop a odd odd funny funny pups and it look nice with both parent being a BD than that is a collectors BD ray

sorry bros got some more picture but cannot upload leh

Last edited by ap99; 09-11-2011 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 19-07-2011, 11:22 PM   #45
Luc
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Originally Posted by ap99 View Post
no! mama is a eclips papa is a regular BD with some donut on top,...before this pc the pups all regular type lor

below is another pup that has odd spot from different parent,....so theres no saying on BD must have this must have that than call pure lah,...I feel once in a blue moon there pop a odd odd funny funny pups and it look nice with both parent being a BD than that is a collectors BD ray

sorry bros got some more picture but cannot upload leh
Eye-opener for me....din know BD can appear like that....definition to be re-define?
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Old 20-07-2011, 03:15 AM   #46
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Eye-opener for me....din know BD can appear like that....definition to be re-define?
Many thanks to TS for begining this topic.

When you breed anything is possible. I even got PDR pups with all the features of BD and BD pups that look like PDR. Those funny shapes as shown by dennis also have. Its really diff to conclude what is what.

Utimately its the traits deemed desireable by the hobbyist that makes the difference. However these changes over time, for example today circular symathtrical patterns may be desired, who knows tomorrow odd shapes may be the fashion. Breeders will breed to what the market wants, when the market is flooded with say circular symathtrical patterns in pure white, who knows the cream odd shapes may command a premium next time this year. Hahaha in such a situation, we really have to think hard how to maintain the cream colour as the ray grows.

I would suggest a uniform P13 grading scale (which of course is valid based on prevailing "fashion trends" today) i.e

Grade 1: Excellent quality P13 aka BD, at least two circumference rings, bigger spots the better, thousand island types or ellipse, strong under belly spotting best, strong eye spottings

Grade 2: Top Quality P13 aka BD, at least one circumference ring (total at least 5 rings of spots) some under belly spots, incomplete islands or ellipses

Grade 3: Quality P13, 4 rings of spots, complete islands or ellipses

Grade 4: Delux P13, 4 rings of spots, incomplete islands or ellipses

Grade 5: Classic 321 PDR

Of course the above relates only to pure P13, some things like flag tail are a given. The term "not pure" should be reserved for P13 cross other black rays (eg P12, P14). Of course any other brown rays cross with P13 will be term hybrid or sp rays that should be out of scope given we are talking only about P13 classifaction.

Fellow breeders, please provide your input.

Thanks
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Old 20-07-2011, 10:16 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by titan power View Post
Uncle nice n detail write up but my bd got peanuts shape spots how? Spots breaking up?

My bd female has peanut shape too but are very white.
As long as you like them, it should be fine.
I don't think they will break up.

Regards

Last edited by TOM32; 20-07-2011 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 20-07-2011, 12:59 PM   #48
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My thinking(no offense to any bros). a Chinese with Chinese always produce a yellow skin Chinese....so is the genetics of "wc BDs" unstable pr was the "black rays" too rare and way too ex earlier days....that so long it is dark base w white dots....it is quickly grabbed and deemed as BDs?

As for traits of model BDs...buyers will still go for the big spots with many spots etc....perhaps only those w unique patterns will maintain a high price in future?
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Old 20-07-2011, 01:28 PM   #49
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Haiz... in the end.. all potentially still classified as ...

Potamotrygon Leopoldi P13
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Old 20-07-2011, 01:40 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Luc View Post
My thinking(no offense to any bros). a Chinese with Chinese always produce a yellow skin Chinese....so is the genetics of "wc BDs" unstable pr was the "black rays" too rare and way too ex earlier days....that so long it is dark base w white dots....it is quickly grabbed and deemed as BDs?

As for traits of model BDs...buyers will still go for the big spots with many spots etc....perhaps only those w unique patterns will maintain a high price in future?
Not exactly like this lor bro..... this thread starting is to educate beginners/Newbie on how to identify a genuine BD/PDR as question is being raised with thread like "Who I am", "What is this/that" Showcase BD in thread which I personally feel is a hybrid.... no offense bro Luc like you posted the recent video.... if you were quoted 10K per pair for these hybrid, you buy? Or rather you will buy a genuine ones?

When a buyer buys in the mind of BD, obviously he does not look at hybrid which resemble like BD pure. So this thread is all about how to identify to minimize the risk of getting the non genuine rays...... In the end it is the honesty of the breeder counts....
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