Fertilization regime help

[Emmanuel]

I will be setting up a tank and need help on these.

I will be choosing between going for either method and hence need a bit of advices between this two.

1) Lushgro Aqua and micro
Will this two fertilizer be enough? Do I need other supplements ?

2) EI Dosing
K2so4 to replace KNO3 for K
KH2PO4 for P
Would K or N be sufficient if going for k2so4 ?

What other dry fert do I need ?
I have been reading and people are using Csm+b not sure where I can get this.
If going for EI, what would be a better option for iron and other trace elements .


Thanks for your help.

[ethanleow]

CSM+b contain copper and is not good for shrimp if u intend to add any.

For EI dosing. I suggest overdose K and add in minimal P and N.. allow sufficient livestock to supplement the N and P.. other micro traces are as important.

[ethanleow]

There is no hard rules on EI dosing. In fact thats how EI dosing come about.. to break the all the rules on a strict regimen with many measurements

[Emmanuel]

Thanks for your reply. From my list of k2so4 and kh2po4, would this 2 be enough ?

[illumnae]

Originally Posted by ethanleow

CSM+b contain copper and is not good for shrimp if u intend to add any.

All Micros contain a certain amount of copper, including CSM+b. The amount of copper contained is not sufficient to harm shrimp. However, CSM+b is not readily available in Singapore, you need to order in from overseas. Most people in Singapore would use Seachem Flourish Comprehensive as micros, or if you want something more similar to CSM+b, you can get Rexolin from hydroponics stores. Don't use Seachem Flourish Micros. It's a watered down version of Comprehensive. If you already bought LushGro Aqua, it can also be used as micros.

Originally Posted by ethanleow

For EI dosing. I suggest overdose K and add in minimal P and N.. allow sufficient livestock to supplement the N and P.. other micro traces are as important.

Originally Posted by ethanleow

There is no hard rules on EI dosing. In fact thats how EI dosing come about.. to break the all the rules on a strict regimen with many measurements

This is not how EI works. The theory of EI is that you dose in excess of the maximum uptake of nutrients in your tank. That way, nutrients are non-limiting and will never cause any problems. You can then look to light/CO2 to solve your algae/plant growth problems.

Adding in "minimal" N and P is not how EI works, unless you have already determined that your livestock is sufficient to provide non-limiting N and P. In high tech tanks, livestock will not be sufficient. OP has not specified what kind of tank his will be.

You can check out Tom Barr's forum for recommended dosing of each fert to reach confirmed non-limiting nutrients for each type of tank size. From there, you can slowly reduce the amount of nutrients week by week and observe how the plants react to "customize" it to your tank. Once you see your plants start to show any adverse reaction, backdate to last week's dosing amount and that is the amount your tank needs.

That's how EI works. No need for test kits, no need to measure water conditions. You observe your plants to determine your dosing amount. However, you still need strict discipline in ensuring sufficient nutrients in your tank, it's not "break all rules and do as you wish". There is still the one ultimate rule you need to follow: non-limiting nutrients.

Originally Posted by Emmanuel

Thanks for your reply. From my list of k2so4 and kh2po4, would this 2 be enough ?

The above 2 will be enough for P and K. You still need N and micros. For N, we use Ca(NO3)2 locally. This also helps increase your GH due to the Ca dosed. You can roughly use the same amount of Ca(NO3)2 as KNO3 in EI sites, it's roughly a direct replacement. For micros, as recommended above, you can use Seachem Flourish Comprehensive or Rexolin.

[Emmanuel]

Thanks illumnae, this is really a summary of all the threads I've read through.
Thanks for giving me the idea of this fert regime .

If that's the case this will be an option between

option 1

CaNo3 + k2so4 + kh2po4 + micros

Or

Option2
Lushgro aqua + micro + kh2po4

Option 1 probably cheaper in the long run but will be tedious to prepare the solutions

Option 2 prepares only one solution (kh2po4) but more expensive .

[illumnae]

It's not tedious to prepare the solutions for Option 1 at all. Takes maybe half an hour or less. I just prepared mine not too long ago. For me, I decided to just keep N, P and K separate and prepared 3 separate 5 litre jerry cans. Total cost was under $35, and based on my calculated max dosage (i.e. before tuning down weekly like I mentioned above), it was enough to last my 422 over a year, and enough to last my office tank over 10 years!

[Emmanuel]

Originally Posted by illumnae

It's not tedious to prepare the solutions for Option 1 at all. Takes maybe half an hour or less. I just prepared mine not too long ago. For me, I decided to just keep N, P and K separate and prepared 3 separate 5 litre jerry cans. Total cost was under $35, and based on my calculated max dosage (i.e. before tuning down weekly like I mentioned above), it was enough to last my 422 over a year, and enough to last my office tank over 10 years!

Ok, guess you are hinting to me that I should go for option 1. Did you get your dry fert from our local online website ?

[ethanleow]

Originally Posted by illumnae

This is not how EI works. The theory of EI is that you dose in excess of the maximum uptake of nutrients in your tank. That way, nutrients are non-limiting and will never cause any problems. You can then look to light/CO2 to solve your algae/plant growth problems.

Adding in "minimal" N and P is not how EI works, unless you have already determined that your livestock is sufficient to provide non-limiting N and P. In high tech tanks, livestock will not be sufficient. OP has not specified what kind of tank his will be.

You can check out Tom Barr's forum for recommended dosing of each fert to reach confirmed non-limiting nutrients for each type of tank size. From there, you can slowly reduce the amount of nutrients week by week and observe how the plants react to "customize" it to your tank. Once you see your plants start to show any adverse reaction, backdate to last week's dosing amount and that is the amount your tank needs.

That's how EI works. No need for test kits, no need to measure water conditions. You observe your plants to determine your dosing amount. However, you still need strict discipline in ensuring sufficient nutrients in your tank, it's not "break all rules and do as you wish". There is still the one ultimate rule you need to follow: non-limiting nutrients..

Yes you are right bro illumnae. But with the amount of livestock.. I did a measurement once a month and noted that I always have 30ppm of N and 2ppm of P. Whereas for K I can only base on overdosing.

[illumnae]

Originally Posted by Emmanuel

Ok, guess you are hinting to me that I should go for option 1. Did you get your dry fert from our local online website ?

I got mine from here: http://www.ecocityhydroponics.com/

The cost I quoted above included $6 delivery charge. They are very efficient and you can schedule delivery to a convenient timing for you via email after your order is confirmed.

Originally Posted by ethanleow

Yes you are right bro illumnae. But with the amount of livestock.. I did a measurement once a month and noted that I always have 30ppm of N and 2ppm of P. Whereas for K I can only base on overdosing.

For high livestock low tech tank this definitely can work. For your tank I think because it's primarily buceps, so uptake is low so it works