Tin Pei Ling: Singapore Has To Go ‘Cold-Turkey’ On Foreign Workers

[richardg]

Originally Posted by DarkMind

To add: while I understand your pessimism about human nature, I do not believe that all big bosses will exploit (squeeze financially) ....
Just sharing my thoughts on this issue.

what is your definition of "exploit"?

[Aces]

Are u sure it was written by her or is it her admin of the fb page.. she will just notice maybe only tommorow? if get into trouble with senior just said it's an honest mistakes by the admin...

Originally Posted by richardg

what is your definition of "exploit"?

For this, I will leave one to interpret with one's own wisdom according to the specific circumstances. A simple definition of exploit would be paying one's workers less than their fair value so that the business owners can make more profit (that is: squeezing the workers financially so that the business owners enrich themselves), knowing that the workers cannot easily leave their jobs for higher paying ones as the workers need the job more than the business owners need them (the workers). The business owners may have the attitude:"You think you are underpaid? Nevermind, I can easily employ another person for your low pay. There are many who are glad to take over your pathetic S$5/hr job."

I know my example may be a bit harsh, but I am trying to get my point across as clearly as possible. By the way, the above I quoted was more or less what a young boss (rich nightclub owner) actually said to his staff (I was present at the meeting); the essence of what he said was quoted above, although I edited it somewhat for stronger effect hoping that I quoted captures the attitude of some bosses clearly.

Originally Posted by globalcookie

Pardon me for pointing that out.

IF is not realistic! A lot of times, people said "IF" they were this, "IF" there were that, they would do this do that... but when they are in the situation they said "IF" they are, would usually not do what they said they would "IF" they are in that situation.

A lot of times, circumstances doesn't permit business people to do things they wish they could.

Point taken. But I know myself well regarding this matter. Since people reading this don't know me personally (even those who know me in real life may not know me well enough to judge me accurately), let's just leave it to individual opinion to decide the veracity (truth) of what I have written about how I would act if I were a boss (or big boss). What is important is I have been given a chance to state my stand clearly. After that, it is fine by me if people choose to disbelieve what I said about myself.

Regardless of whether I could do what I said I would do, I hope people won't be so pessmistic to think that all bosses will exploit their workers (or squeezing them financially for the bosses' extra profit) if given a chance. The important point is, this matter is not about me, but about the larger issue of human nature. My point is ---- not all bosses are so bad (although I would say really good bosses are expected to be in the minority in our current time and age, generally speaking), not all bosses will choose to exploit their workers if given a chance (considering the topic of discussion here: not all bosses will choose to maximize profit at the expense of Singaporean interests --- by, for example, sacking all Singaporean workers if they could do so and employing cheaper foreign labour).

Even if I personally cannot do the right thing, I am not so pessimistic to think that nobody can do it.

[richardg]

In general, in a free market economy, unless uses physical force, there is no such thing as exploit. there is no such thing as less than fair value.
There is no such thing as "fair" value perse, the market dictates.
If there is, how would one come to this "fair value"?


just as employees can leave their employers anytime to seek a better paying employer, employers can hire other employees who are willing to take a lower pay.

the best thing to do is to keep the market free and market forces will dictate the eventual level of pay.

all business will try to maximise profit.
this applies employees as well, all else equal no person will work for a lower paying employer

Originally Posted by DarkMind

For this, I will leave one to interpret with one's own wisdom according to the specific circumstances. A simple definition of exploit would be paying one's workers less than their fair value so that the business owners can make more profit (that is: squeezing the workers financially so that the business owners enrich themselves), knowing that the workers cannot easily leave their jobs for higher paying ones as the workers need the job more than the business owners need them (the workers). The business owners may have the attitude:"You think you are underpaid? Nevermind, I can easily employ another person for your low pay. There are many who are glad to take over your pathetic S$5/hr job."

I know my example may be a bit harsh, but I am trying to get my point across as clearly as possible. By the way, the above I quoted was more or less what a young boss (rich nightclub owner) actually said to his staff (I was present at the meeting); the essence of what he said was quoted above, although I edited it somewhat for stronger effect hoping that I quoted captures the attitude of some bosses clearly.

[therat]

In Singapore, free market is a lie.

When ppl bid $1 for the wet market stall. They void It.
If really a free market, they should honour the bid.

Like ebay, seller set the price once bidding end. Honour the deal.
If the seller set the price too low. Then too bad.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[richardg]

Originally Posted by therat

In Singapore, free market is a lie.

When ppl bid $1 for the wet market stall. They void It.
If really a free market, they should honour the bid.

Like ebay, seller set the price once bidding end. Honour the deal.
If the seller set the price too low. Then too bad.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

doesnt ebay also have a base bid?
they will have to honour if there is no provision la
just like $1 coe

related to pay?

[hkh]

Originally Posted by therat

In Singapore, free market is a lie.

When ppl bid $1 for the wet market stall. They void It.
If really a free market, they Hi bro can you whatsapp me picture of your Orino ? Thanks honour the bid.

Like ebay, seller set the price once bidding end. Honour the deal.
If the seller set the price too low. Then too bad.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Well at least I can dare say AF truely practices free market system..... We can freely bid for fishes in Auction well below market rate and Seller never back out on Sales.....

[byfun]

Originally Posted by DarkMind

Nevermind, I can easily employ another person for your low pay. There are many who are glad to take over your pathetic S$5/hr job."

$5 per hour is not most pathetic. If one worked 10 hrs a day it will be $50 a day. Assuming he worked 26 days. He will have $1300. More decent than many cleaning jobs out there which is $800-$1100.

Even mac don't pay their new crew $5 per hour.

[globalcookie]

Originally Posted by DarkMind

Point taken. But I know myself well regarding this matter. Since people reading this don't know me personally (even those who know me in real life may not know me well enough to judge me accurately)

Regardless of whether I could do what I said I would do, I hope people won't be so pessmistic to think that all bosses will exploit their workers (or squeezing them financially for the bosses' extra profit) if given a chance.

Perhaps you didn't get my point. I had said "IF is not realistic" which is actually the case. A lot of times, people said "IF" because they are not in the exact situation. So that is what I was driving at.

Like I am so determined to say IF i'm in this situation, I will definitely do that... but in reality, I may not really do what I said affirmatively, what I would do IF i'm in that situation. But that is not the main point here.

If you notice my closing statement in that post >> A lot of times, circumstances doesn't permit business people to do things they wish they could.

A lot of times, circumstances doesn't really allow people to do things they think righteously they shd do, or they would do. (been there, done that).

Yes, opinions and individual thoughts on the matter are just a mere discussion. We are mature enough not to get upset or personal (which we didn't). So i'll leave it as it is.

Originally Posted by hkh

Well at least I can dare say AF truely practices free market system..... We can freely bid for fishes in Auction well below market rate and Seller never back out on Sales.....

Haha.. true! AF market place is a lot more fair and mature as compared to e other scenario ($1 market store bid being void).