Oversizing Equipments?

Originally Posted by decentkid

bro spsman...
if you do not have an oversized skimmer...then lets presume that your skimmer is working at its maximum...all of a sudden due to the death of a fish or snails and clams spawning or what so ever reason...how can your skimmer remove the DOCs if it is already working at its maximum???

This is a good point. This is also the time when u realise your skill level. Check w senior reefers. or u may want to check w friendly lfs owners. perhaps u could ask Henry from Marine life that qn. you could of course take a look at his skimmer.
Be aware that the skimmer removes waste, it does not perform biological filtration. thus, it does not break waste down.
If u say u are going empty, without liverocks/ sand/ or any chemical filtration, than i say that the skimmer should be big.

signs of tank crash can be seen in advance is true....but why is your tank crashing? most probably due to the large collection of organic materials...and maybe i ask why is there so much organic materials left if your skimmer is efficient enough?

another interestin point, but the skimmer is not the solution to things. how can large organic waste be collected if u add your livestock slowly and wisely?
An efficient skimmer is one that can meet your needs. an overefficeint skimmer supercedes what u need and this is the qn.

then if u say that tank crahes are due to cumulative periods of negligence...then like that we should not use skimmers or phosphate removers....cos if so we will be neglecting...all we are doing is sitting back and relax...once in a while just change media...thats all....and if indeed we are using these stuff and of appropriate amounts....how can there be any factors to cause our tank to crash...cos from what u said...being able to see the signs...these tank crashing factors are something that is cumulative and not something that occur suddenly...

dun understand what u are saying here

so have you also thought of something that occurs suddenly that can cause a tank crash...where will your safety net be???

yeah...my philosophy is that i dun look at tank crashes and how to prevent it. my philosophy is to learn and understand what u are doing before u do anything. E.g. before i add a fish, i will check on its needs and behaviour and compatibility. thus i minimise fights and deaths. As for corals, i place them according to species and territorail attributes. there are no coral wars.
In short, alot of things can be prevented if u know what u are doing and u are patient in husbandary. did u check for flatworms before introducing a euphyllia coral, did u qt the fish before intro to tank? If u done all these with passion and discipline, alot of sudden deaths can be prevented. inconclusive, we cannot include fish diseases that are unseen to the naked eye and stress factors to the death of the specimen.


what if you tank is really that good and u are that pro that even your corals start spawning also...then how? the corals are suiciding and if u dont have a skimmer capable of removing much more waste then as usual....then the cumulation of DOCs will become a problem...

in nature, corals spawn during seasons. in the reef tank, they spawn at ultimate conditions. and they will take care of themselves. corals do not spawn as a way of commiting suicide, if thats what u meant. i dunno why DOC and coral spawning can relate?

and if u are using the ferari as an example...will under utilisation of the bubbles spoil the skimmer?

the ferari example was mentioned in relation to over sized chillers.
Your qn is an issue pertaining to the metd and concept of skimming
R u trying to compare downdraft/ venturi/ needlewheel/ beckett etc etc .. types of skimmers and the bubble size they produce??
i dun understand how u can over utilise the bubbles shud u have an over-sized skimmer.
put simply, why does tha beckett skimmer have so many sizes huh?


cheerz

Originally Posted by nim75sg

But I don't have snails or clams in my tank .. I hate them.

well....then corals do spawn...
but in your case...the chances of sudden mishaps is lesser....which is a good thing...
but at least u still see the advantages of having oversized equipments....

Originally Posted by spsman

It is easy for one to say that "with proper planning, water changes can be made easily.' how many tanks do u own btw, may i ask? if its possible, could u post a a group photo of your current tanks/ tank? Dun be mistaken, but i dunno anyone who is willing to change water for all 9-10 tanks. btw, there is another secret to maintaining water parameters which probably u are unaware of yet. u can ask if me if u want to know...

whether water changing is difficult or easy, stil it's part of a good husbandry routine. by telling ppl(esp newbies) tat u hav not made a single water change throughout the mths or years n u using an juz nice skimmer, u r setting out a bad example.
suppose u r not even willing 2 change water 4 9-10 tks, y keep so many 4 wat?
u know of any secret? tat's great 4 u. hav u try it n apply it? yes? show ur setup then. a few reefers here oso wonder y u hav not shown ur setup ever since u joined.
u dun 1 2 show off? or u dun find it neccessary? then y bother 2 share ur reviews?

BTW, there's tis great guy 2 many work alone, change his 10 over tks water alone

[QUOTE=spsman]water changing is your personal regiment. but the question here is about the need to oversize a skimmer and the removal of trace elements due to over-skimming. which u have not answered yet. Whether u keep AT or damsels, it does not matter at all. It does not even matter if u manage to keep a shark.
[QUOTE]

JON, hav u ever tried keeping an AT?? YES? then pls show a pic plssss. everyone here knows i love 2 see reefers' pics of their AT.
NO??no wonder.wat bro losmandy said is true. fr my personnal experience, keeping an AT without powerful skimming n water changes will stress tat beauty in 1 way or another.
u think u r confident 2 keep 1 without either 1 of the 2? show me then. i'll salute u in time 2 come.

Originally Posted by losmandy

In this case do you think you are overskimming as your skimmer is over-rated? You just agree with me that having extra skimmer capacity is good when there is a sudden mishap. This is added safety buffer.

They are rated for certain tank capacity but able to hand the extra if the need arises unlike others who intentionally purchased oversized equipment.

For eg my 6'x2'x2' tank (680L) is skimmed by a Deltec MCE600 which is suitable for 700 litres for normal stocking and only 450 litres for heavy stocking.

So is my skimmer overskimming or not?

Originally Posted by spsman

driving a ferari at 80km/h is under utilising a quality machine. if u really understand the dynamics of the ferrari engine, u will know that u cannot do that for a long time. the engine will be ruined. .

dun talk abt the dynamics of a ferrari engine. u dun even understand at all. true, driving a ferrari at 80km/h will ruin it's engine, but tat does not apply oni 2 ferrari engines. u try tat on a 2L cerfiro, u c if the cerfiro can last? likewise, u do tat on a small 1L car, it's oso the same thing. engine RPM is variable, if u insist on travelling at a said constant speed w/o changing it's speed/RPM, u c wat will ur engine give u in time 2 come.
tat was y i said ur analogy is totally out of context.

Originally Posted by spsman

your example of the ah pek and sprinter is totally amusing.
my question was why the need to oversize... I did not say u shud undersize your chiller. no offence, but what u just said is kinda no meaning....and i dun understand a single bit.

tat applies 2 ur analogy as well.

Originally Posted by nim75sg

I am aware that most European Skimmers (Deltec, AquaMedic, GroTech, Bubble King, etc) are under-rated and they can easily cope with the 50% extra-load.

If one is using such European Skimmers and he is facing significant nitrate problem that he has to turn to improving his denitrifying system by denitrators and so on, this means that his european skimmer is already at maximum capacity, so much so that there is excess waste not captured by the skimming process that eventually gives rise to the nitrates problem. So since the skimmer is already operating at 100% capacity, where is the extra 50% capacity?

Unless, one is using such European Skimmers and these skimmers are so efficient at removing wastes so fast that there is less spillover into the conversion and devoid of nitrate problems. Then we can say the skimmer has not even reached its full capacity since it can still remove more crude waste before reaching full capability. In this scenario, then you may have the so called extra percentage capacity

The manufacturers just give a rough guide in their ratings which is why we do not treat their recommendations as the rulebook. They state this skimmer is rated up to 200gallons......a guy with one fish in his 200 gallon tank will think this skimmer is a dream and true to its ratings in achieving his nutrient free environment if that is what he wants.

Similarly, a guy with tons of fishes in his 200gallon tank will think this skimmer sucks because there is a high residual nitrate problem that he has got to wreck his brain to solve if he wants a low nutrient level.

This is the catch here, manufacturers do not explicitly guarantee super low nutrient water levels if you use their rated 200gallon skimmer on your 200gallon system. You can't sue them if your tank is full of nutrients and not doing as well as you have expected from a 200gallon skimmer....they did not promise you 0 nitrates under ridiculous loading

Originally Posted by spsman

gee bro, i didn't know u work at Jalan Kayu. please see my reply to bro losmandy. cheerz. hey we are bros... no hard feelings right???

jalan kayu?? i tot sometime back u said u r fr the navy?? u were telling someone abt the water there, something like tat. gosh, my memory fail me again..or u.....

no problem man..

Originally Posted by BarraCuda™

If HDB only build according to what is normally needed, what happened if some freak decided to build a 8x3x3 tank?

.

my...boss, tat could b my next project!!!

and i must state that their ratings are not totally useless though

for those beginning the hobby or rather unsure about things...you can probably use the manufacturers' rating guide as a starting point of inference.

say you use skimmer A for your system and after using it, your tank nitrates stabilise at reading Z....

if you feel that this level of nutrient is what you want to achieve. Hurray, you got it right the first time thanks to the manufacturers' rating guide.

But if you feel this level of nutrient is too high, then off to the higher capacity skimmers you go...

or rarely, if you feel this level of nutrient is too low for your liking, either you try to retard the performance of this skimmer, change to a lower rated skimmer, or feed more

Originally Posted by devilfire

jalan kayu?? i tot sometime back u said u r fr the navy?? u were telling someone abt the water there, something like tat. gosh, my memory fail me again..or u.....

no problem man..

side track abit.... devilfire you from the navy?