Discus Buyers Beware!!!!

Originally Posted by hengyi86

here you go
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=24
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/sh...1&postcount=25

I am not sure how long they are sick.but judging from their state, i would say for quite sometime. seller claim not aware the fishs are in such a bad condition and not aware is contagious (how can not be aware?) and internal parasite is very common for discus. But i checked he has been selling discus since 2009 and i believe he has the knowledge to know about such stuff.

Hi Hengyi,

Before you go on and on....feeling sorry for yourself....blaming others for all the misery they pile on you....trying to warn others to be careful when buying new fishes & stating you do not wish to pursue this matter yet keep implying how wrong/ unethical the seller is.....

Maybe you can help to answer some of these questions:

1. Did the seller force you to buy those fishes you bid?
2. Did you meet the seller at the agreed timing to view the fishes, then decide if you wan to take them?
3. How long have you left the fishes in the bag (with no O2 supply) because you forgot about the agreed appointment and can only collect them like a few hours later and that the fishes are in the bag with your friend all the while? Did the seller not warn you not to put them in the bag for too long?
4. How much do you know about Albino Discus? Do you know they are much weaker gene than non-albino Discus, as a result more delicate than the non-albino Discus?
5. Are you confident of caring for them, especially when they are juvenile only? Did you think of all these challenges when you bid?
6. Did the seller pass you fishes that are not the same as what you bid for? Or not the same as what was shown on the auction thread? Did you bid for the extra free fish or they are given to you out of good will? Did you not feel very happy when you received the free fishes?
7. How did you acclimatize your fishes? Did you do proper quarantine? Or did you simply mix them with your non-albino Discus?
8. Do you have a spare tank to put your new fishes or you simply think that one tank is enough for all fishes, be it new or old?
9. Do you know that non-albino fishes may be more resistant to bacteria or other parasite, compared to non-albino fishes, esp so if the albino fish are the new fish, that is still trying to adapt to the change in environment? Do you know that putting them together is a very big risk?
10. Does the new Discus has fin clamp when they are in the bag? Or it only happen when you mix them around in your old tank?
11. When is the last water change for your old tank? Is the water dirty? Do you know that non-albino discus are more resistant than albino discus to high nitrate and ammonia?
12. Does it mean that if the seller keeps Discus from 2009, he is fully aware of all the diseases and cures of Discus fish? 1 yr plus is enough to be a super pro in discus keeping? Then can I say that since you have been keeping fish (different types of fishes somemore) since 2009 or earlier, you should be better aware of all the symptoms of signs of sick fish and all the good practices like quarantine of new fish?
13. Since you love to read past threads so much, are you aware that the seller has only ventured into Albino Discus not too long ago? Are you aware that his experience is albino discus could be as trivial as yours? When you say how can he be not aware, then let me ask you....how can you be so sure that he is aware? back to qn 12 again.....
14. When you create a big hooha with your multiple threads, did the seller not offer to refund you full amount?
15. I see that you are good at doing CSI on the seller, regarding his old threads, did you see any dispute or any dishonesty/ complaints for the past sales?
16. Did you not try to sell very sick Discus fish not too long ago? What is the reason that you gave when the moderator comment that your fishes are very sick and you should not sell? You say you dunno Then can I say how can you be not aware? You have been keeping fishes for so long and you don't know what a sick fish look like?

So, if your answers for most of the question is "YES", I think you have a very strong case against the seller....if not, pls do reflect on your role as the "victimised" buyer.

ha. all i know is seller sells me sick fish without telling me, even the so called healthy ones. U said u did know its internal bacteria but dont bother telling me or stating in the auction?

can see from their physical state been sick for sometime. Pics says a thousand words.case strong enough?

did mentioned its my fault for not seeing the fish in person and asked to be fed before i collect.

Luckly my turqs are still healthy thats all i can say. Dont even matter what happens after coming to my tank because i have done all necessary procedures aclimatizing them. even trying to treat them. simply too weak.

different fish same sickness? really think is going off topic.
as for selling sick discus i dont really see my discus as sick as i just ventured into discus.till now 2 ppl has tell me is sick but have not gotten a clear reason why. didnt really go into details except i see u selling discus since 2009. as for your discus... clearly even the "healthy"ones...

deccante feel free to speak since seller has spoken

if you wanna bring this up to dispute thread please do so

Just to let you know... sometimes its not about the $$... Its best for you to let people know your fishes are sick. if they are willing to take them so be it. If you know they have been sick for sometime let other people know.

It is ALSO the responsibility of the buyer to check the fishes.

Admit i was pretty pissed off after checking you have been selling discus for sometime. i half suspect you know they are not healthy and my words wasnt very nice.

This i admit i was in the wrong.

Originally Posted by KOA

Which medicine you use for quarantine? Thank.

I don't use any medication.

Originally Posted by hengyi86

ha. all i know is seller sells me sick fish without telling me, even the so called healthy ones. U said u did know its internal bacteria but dont bother telling me or stating in the auction?

can see from their physical state been sick for sometime. Pics says a thousand words.case strong enough?

did mentioned its my fault for not seeing the fish in person and asked to be fed before i collect.

Luckly my turqs are still healthy thats all i can say. Dont even matter what happens after coming to my tank because i have done all necessary procedures aclimatizing them. even trying to treat them. simply too weak.

different fish same sickness? really think is going off topic.
as for selling sick discus i dont really see my discus as sick as i just ventured into discus.till now 2 ppl has tell me is sick but have not gotten a clear reason why. didnt really go into details except i see u selling discus since 2009. as for your discus... clearly even the "healthy"ones...

deccante feel free to speak since seller has spoken

if you wanna bring this up to dispute thread please do so

It very difficult to decide who is right or wrong. Some breeder's fishes do carry certain types of parasites or bacteria which they are immune to it or have already built up a resistant to it. There can appear healthy, eating well and swimming around. But then they have this bug that does not affect them a single bit.

Once com with other fishes, the older fishes are infected and does not have the resistant to it.

At the end of the day, a experienced seller should eliminate this bug, so that when they bring the fishes home, existing fishes will not get infected.

Originally Posted by hengyi86

Just to let you know... sometimes its not about the $$... Its best for you to let people know your fishes are sick. if they are willing to take them so be it. If you know they have been sick for sometime let other people know.

It is ALSO the responsibility of the buyer to check the fishes.

Admit i was pretty pissed off after checking you have been selling discus for sometime. i half suspect you know they are not healthy and my words wasnt very nice.

This i admit i was in the wrong.

No...this is not meant to be a dispute thread....if you had stick to what you preached in the first place (to warn Discus buyers of potential sale)....I wouldnt have comment....but the way you phrase it....it's deviating from its purpose....instead of "hey ppl, be careful when you buy new discus from anyone else"....it has become....."hey be careful of this seller xxx.... he is selling sick discus, he claims he does not know it....hw can it be? he is selling for so long...." so u see know who wants it to be a dispute thread?

If you are refering to the 2 FOC fishes, this I admit that I know they are not doing well and not eating.....plus I know anyone seeing their shape will know....I am not so stupid to sell them and ruin my own reputation....which is why I took photo and auction 3 pcs instead of 5 pcs....had I given u them separately....would u have complained? Also, for the remaining fishes, they were healthy when I passed them to you, of cos would be better if you can come over my place to do whatever test you wish on them....but you never came.....

Lastly on the knowledge on internal parasite....I have explained to you many times about my ignorance, you choose not to believe because you think I am so "experience" and should know....as what I have told you earlier, I did not encounter internal parasite prob until I start off with albino discus 2 mths back....I used to feed my non-albino discus with tubifex worm (the most deadly parasite containing food) and the fish is still ok....when I seeked advice on internal parasite, I was under the impression that they are easily cure.....absolutely no one told me to separate them because the infected one can infect the non-infected one....if you cannot believe that I don't know internal parasite is contagious, then thats probably nothing I can do to convince you.....

To conclude, I wrote not because I enjoy quarrelling with you or trying to defend myself to the max....and say I have no fault at all....if I had known that internal parasite is deadly and contagious....like dropsy or white spot....I would have stated them in my sales thread.....but just listening 1 side of the story seems unfair to me.....I have encountered bad experience when buying fishes before....that time I personally went to the buyers home to see....I know something is wrong and I did not say....I was scared of offending the seller....subsequently when I asked for advice, I did not blame the seller....because I know its my fault for taking the fishes despite knowing they are unwell....but everytime a buyer come my place....I let them have all the time in the world to see and judge if they wan take it....I even let them have their quiet moment on their own for them to decide....some bro came and do the food test and in the end they are happy to bag it....

I will let the community and moderator pass the judgement and decide my fate....if bros out there think that I am wrong/ unethical in this episode, I am willing to accept any punishment, which includes taking away my buy and sell rights....the refund part is the least I can do with regards to the inconvenience I caused on your part.....its not saying "hey i pay u back so pls shut up".....while I thought that ur comments are in someway biased against me, I do respect you for the way u handle this issue and for not making personal attacks in the first place.....but subsequently I couldnt accept your comments.....but I am sincerely apologetic for making u go through the effort to treat them.

Thanks.

[deccante]

I have no comments as I went down to collect the fishes on my own.

My other piece is skinny but eating well and i think its not sick

[God of tank]

I do agreed on audiotom pointer and i know Bro Itchy is also a responsible seller, He drove me back and pack individually , afraid the discus might injured themselves in the bag.

[oscar77]

Commenting on pics, those fishes should be culled, not even FOC. And on hobbyist point of view, seller even without obligation, shall exercise certain consideration that, the buyer, may not have enough knowledge to justify what he/she is buying/keeping. I think spirit of sharing is important in fish hobbyist forum.

Personally i feel dishearten with this kind of quality discus circulated (Trade/giving) in fish hobbyist forum. What we all hope and wish, not only gaining knowledge from others, but also to promote discus keeping in fish forum. Like what i always said, the act of circulating low quality/ sick discus, in hobbyist forum, demoted/giving the bad impression to those started - discus is difficult to keep.

[wonderlovers]

imho, since they were FOC you shouldn't have complained or anything. They were free. but that's just me.

Even FOC the seller should make known to the buyer about the state of the fishes and ask if buyer willing to take them and not make the buyer thinks that those are given out of goodwill. This is basic respect. Seriously if it's me I wouldn't take sick fishes even if FOC.