Arofanatics Fish Talk Forums  

Go Back   Arofanatics Fish Talk Forums > General Aquatic Forums > General Freshwater Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 30-07-2018, 10:33 PM   #1
wllm33
Dragon
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,667
Default bumble bee grouper requirements

hi sifus,

if buy juvenile from lfs, from day 1 what water parameters is best to mix the water in the bag.

I measured ph in bag water is 6.8.

Do we need add salt and roughly how much to a 1 ft tank . I have coral chips and sand in tank.

Thank you for any advice as have no success so far
wllm33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 11:44 AM   #2
mictok
Dragon
 
mictok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,590
Default

Best in blackish or marine , use marine salt, not normal salt.
Fresh water can keep but short lived most of the time.
mictok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2018, 10:51 PM   #3
wllm33
Dragon
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,667
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mictok View Post
Best in blackish or marine , use marine salt, not normal salt.
Fresh water can keep but short lived most of the time.
mind sharing difference btw marine vs normal salt. Will normal salt definitely cannot be used?
If so, using marine salt , will need hygrometer to have exact salt conc same as marine fishes to keep the fish alive for long?

also what about hardness and ph ( I measured the ph water came with the fish is 6.8 from lfs). Is this just temporary for the fish and it will not survive for long.
mine lasted 3 days

If not mistaken, seen a thread here, and TS says his bumberbee is now fully converted to fresh water and thriving. So possible to live long with full conversion>
Thanks for advice
wllm33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2018, 05:12 PM   #4
HuttShun
Dragon
 
HuttShun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,319
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wllm33 View Post
mind sharing difference btw marine vs normal salt. Will normal salt definitely cannot be used?
If so, using marine salt , will need hygrometer to have exact salt conc same as marine fishes to keep the fish alive for long?

also what about hardness and ph ( I measured the ph water came with the fish is 6.8 from lfs). Is this just temporary for the fish and it will not survive for long.
mine lasted 3 days

If not mistaken, seen a thread here, and TS says his bumberbee is now fully converted to fresh water and thriving. So possible to live long with full conversion>
Thanks for advice
Hello,

Marine salt contains buffers as well as several trace elements that mimics actual reef waters, which is essential for the well-being of marine fish.

Table salt usually contains iodine or other caking agent to prevent the salt from caking due to humidity. These other additives are usually toxic to fishes in high concentrations.

Aquarium salt does not contain the additives found in table salt.

Bumblebee grouper can survive in freshwater, but they will not last as long as those that are kept in a marine environment. Juvenile bumblebee grouper will travel to estuaries containing brackish water to look for prey as they are more adaptable than adults, and they mostly return to the ocean when they are larger.

In order for the fish to truly thrive, I would suggest a LARGE marine environment for these creatures, as they do get humongous. I guess most hobbyist purchase them due to their "exotic" factor of having a saltwater fish living in a freshwater environment, and expect them to fully thrive in freshwater, resulting in pre-matured deaths of juveniles. The same applies for trevallies and morray eels. These freshwater "converted" fishes would inhabit estuaries or even rivers when they are younger, but they will eventually migrate back to the ocean when they are older.

They do survive in freshwater when they are younger but they require more and more salt as they get older. Maybe their lifespan would be prolonged if the freshwater's pH is about 8.0 - 8.5, just maybe.

Hope that answers some of your queries.

Cheers!
Hutt Shun
HuttShun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 12:35 AM   #5
wllm33
Dragon
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,667
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuttShun View Post
Hello,

Marine salt contains buffers as well as several trace elements that mimics actual reef waters, which is essential for the well-being of marine fish.

Table salt usually contains iodine or other caking agent to prevent the salt from caking due to humidity. These other additives are usually toxic to fishes in high concentrations.

Aquarium salt does not contain the additives found in table salt.

Bumblebee grouper can survive in freshwater, but they will not last as long as those that are kept in a marine environment. Juvenile bumblebee grouper will travel to estuaries containing brackish water to look for prey as they are more adaptable than adults, and they mostly return to the ocean when they are larger.

In order for the fish to truly thrive, I would suggest a LARGE marine environment for these creatures, as they do get humongous. I guess most hobbyist purchase them due to their "exotic" factor of having a saltwater fish living in a freshwater environment, and expect them to fully thrive in freshwater, resulting in pre-matured deaths of juveniles. The same applies for trevallies and morray eels. These freshwater "converted" fishes would inhabit estuaries or even rivers when they are younger, but they will eventually migrate back to the ocean when they are older.

They do survive in freshwater when they are younger but they require more and more salt as they get older. Maybe their lifespan would be prolonged if the freshwater's pH is about 8.0 - 8.5, just maybe.

Hope that answers some of your queries.

Cheers!
Hutt Shun
hi,
thnks for clear explanation.
seen a few youtube videos of bumble bee grouper sizes quite large in a 3-4 ft tank and owner seems to suggest they are in freshwater environment even though quite big as per aquarium tank size expectations. So likely possible conversion to freshwater in my simple reading.
Think my concern is when first bght from lfs how to stabilise the juv to survive as got conflicting inputs from diff lfs owners as to how to house them at home, so really appreciate if anybody can advise on the way like what we do with difficult fishes like altums to condition them.

Anyway this thread in same forum here suggest that TS is keeping his quite big bb grouper in freshwater and very alive
http://arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539119
probably he is highly skilled sifu in this fish
wllm33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 03:27 PM   #6
mictok
Dragon
 
mictok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,590
Default

There are cases that survive but rate is low compared to blackish or marine and the colouration is better than fw environment.
mictok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 09:54 PM   #7
HuttShun
Dragon
 
HuttShun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,319
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wllm33 View Post
hi,
thnks for clear explanation.
seen a few youtube videos of bumble bee grouper sizes quite large in a 3-4 ft tank and owner seems to suggest they are in freshwater environment even though quite big as per aquarium tank size expectations. So likely possible conversion to freshwater in my simple reading.
Think my concern is when first bght from lfs how to stabilise the juv to survive as got conflicting inputs from diff lfs owners as to how to house them at home, so really appreciate if anybody can advise on the way like what we do with difficult fishes like altums to condition them.

Anyway this thread in same forum here suggest that TS is keeping his quite big bb grouper in freshwater and very alive
http://arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539119
probably he is highly skilled sifu in this fish
Bumblebee groupers grow up to 9ft in length and also up to 400kg, I don't think there's anyone who have kept a bumblebee grouper to even half that length in a full freshwater environment without it dying prematurely.

I know there are hybrid groupers in the market which might be able to better withstand full freshwater environment, but as far as bumblebee groupers are concerned, these giants need to have an increase in salinity as they get bigger, up to the point of full marine salinity.
HuttShun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2018, 12:14 AM   #8
wllm33
Dragon
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,667
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuttShun View Post
Bumblebee groupers grow up to 9ft in length and also up to 400kg, I don't think there's anyone who have kept a bumblebee grouper to even half that length in a full freshwater environment without it dying prematurely.

I know there are hybrid groupers in the market which might be able to better withstand full freshwater environment, but as far as bumblebee groupers are concerned, these giants need to have an increase in salinity as they get bigger, up to the point of full marine salinity.
assuming that what the lfs is selling hybrids, will be safe to say that they can survive in full fresh water, as shown by this mentioned thread and all those youtube videos showing them very alive but no so big and in fresh water as claimed in the description
or we will really need to adjust them back to salt water and use same , hygrometer to measure salinity like marine fishes if we were to want to keep them alive for long time in the aquarium but not hope to grow them too big?
thnks for advice.
wllm33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2018, 04:11 PM   #9
HuttShun
Dragon
 
HuttShun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,319
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wllm33 View Post
assuming that what the lfs is selling hybrids, will be safe to say that they can survive in full fresh water, as shown by this mentioned thread and all those youtube videos showing them very alive but no so big and in fresh water as claimed in the description
or we will really need to adjust them back to salt water and use same , hygrometer to measure salinity like marine fishes if we were to want to keep them alive for long time in the aquarium but not hope to grow them too big?
thnks for advice.
Nah I wouldn't say that they can survive fully in freshwater, although they might be able to better withstand the fluctuations in salinity when they are younger. We don't know what goes on behind the Youtube videos, they might claim the groupers to be in full freshwater, but who knows they have added some marine salt.

Better to standby a bag of marine salt and a hydrometer to monitor the desired salinity for them to thrive, as they are ultimately saltwater fish.

I wouldn't suggest getting a grouper if the intention of keeping the fish is to hope that they don't grow so big. Also, I would expect the hybrid groupers to have a faster growth rate as compared to the bumblebee grouper.
HuttShun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2018, 10:32 PM   #10
wllm33
Dragon
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,667
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuttShun View Post
Nah I wouldn't say that they can survive fully in freshwater, although they might be able to better withstand the fluctuations in salinity when they are younger. We don't know what goes on behind the Youtube videos, they might claim the groupers to be in full freshwater, but who knows they have added some marine salt.

Better to standby a bag of marine salt and a hydrometer to monitor the desired salinity for them to thrive, as they are ultimately saltwater fish.

I wouldn't suggest getting a grouper if the intention of keeping the fish is to hope that they don't grow so big. Also, I would expect the hybrid groupers to have a faster growth rate as compared to the bumblebee grouper.
so you advise that it should be kept at marine salinity of 1.023-1.04? or? if I decide to try again
wllm33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +9. The time now is 07:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2000-2008 Arofanatics.com (Since 30th August 2000)