Arofanatics Carnival 2011 Guppy Competition

[jest1081]

Originally Posted by Derrick77

You are right bro. Previously, we will consider them as solid colour only even if they are albino BH blue or black or albino moscow blue. As albino, they are seen as 1 colour. They cannot be benched into 2 classes. Allowing that means that they have the choice of benching into the class they like while other fishes have only a clearly defined class to bench in. If they bench into bi colour, they will be considered DQ.

For the organising committee to consider for future competitions.

hi bro,

i think this is a gd point for discussion.
imo topaz are stunning fishes. and maintaining the line of topaz is not an easy task either.

putting them under solid color cat will definitely cause em to lose points due to their lack of coverage.

why is albinism seen as one color? its obvious topaz have a gold body and blue finage which should be correctly classified as bi color irregardless of their albinism.

also sets a question on solid color moscows and non-moscows. why the segregation?

[genki]

Thank you to all for the support & help throughout the event.
Congrats to all winners as well. Special thanks to angelo & coy!

[Derrick77]

Originally Posted by jest1081

hi bro,

i think this is a gd point for discussion.
imo topaz are stunning fishes. and maintaining the line of topaz is not an easy task either.

putting them under solid color cat will definitely cause em to lose points due to their lack of coverage.

why is albinism seen as one color? its obvious topaz have a gold body and blue finage which should be correctly classified as bi color irregardless of their albinism.

also sets a question on solid color moscows and non-moscows. why the segregation?

Let me recall some history on how the classes were defined. Pardon me as it may be a very summarized and some points discussed maybe forgotten. I will try to find if I still keep the standards and definitions of each class somewhere in my computer and I can post and share with all of you and a refresher to those who have seen before in the previous long threads which have been deleted off already.

There used to be one class as solid color but through the competitions. From the past results, it is usually the albino full reds that will stand out against the moscows. Human eyes usually are more attracted to red colour than the traditional "faded" moscow blues or greens (no blacks yet). When moscow blues or greens goes to competition, they change colour and they do not stand out well at all. Thus we created a separated class to cater for moscow solid colours to compete that is also consisting of the later moscow purple and the moscow blacks.

When we had only 1 class of solid colour, the class for solid colour can run up to 50+ entries vs other classes (15 - 20 entries) during those days when many of us keep reds and Moscow blues were the "in" thing. If we reference back to the recent competitions, we still have a strong group of solid Moscow and non solid moscows players averaging about 20 entries each class. This is another reason we decided to split the 2 big major groups to encourage more players and reduced classes like mossic to collapse with grass and variegated class where there are less or no entries.

The question as albinolism is seen as 1 colour. When albino full reds are not necessary pure reds but due to the albinolism, the black pigments are “covered” up. If we have done crosses with albino full red with a grey eye, we find more “patterns” appearing in the fries. Now the full reds are more well inbred, so we may see less of it or see the reds as cleaner. This leads to how we decide on albino topaz, albino HB blue or albino Moscow blue aka skyblue. The strains mentioned are those that lose their black pigments due to albinolism and we cannot field them in the grey eye class. We cannot physically see or judge them as hb blue or ¾ black or Moscow blue. It will not be fair playing field if they decide to enter as class 1 this time, class 2 next time or class 3 etc depending on where the chance of winning maybe higher. It is not appropriate for the “same physical” looking fish to be competing in 2 or 3 different classes. So the decision was to place them as their physical appearance like the albino red as solid colour non Moscow.

[issacyeo]

thanks for the headsup on the history of classification and the vids

[Derrick77]

The guppy competition started with 5 classes:

1. Solid colour
2. Bi colour
3. Variegated / Grass / Mossic
4. Lace / Snakeskin
5. AOC

At one point of time, we had the best female class but it was later dropped as females will be judged together with the pair or group.

2 categories were later expended due to popularly of the strains that the hobbyists were keeping.

1. Solid colour was expended to Moscow and Non Moscow classes
2. AOC was expended to 3 more classes namely short tail/ extended tail and AOC.

Short tail are for round tails, spear and pin tails. They have to compete in the class of their own because they will not stand out vs a big triangle or delta tail AOCs.

Extended tails are for swords tails like double swords, top or bottom swords. Swords cannot be mixed with the round tails because the judging criteria is totally different and it is hard to rate a round tail with a sword tail.

The AOC class is for delta tailed fishes that does not fit into any of the classes. Eg: solid colour: they have to be less than 70% coloured and/or with certain patterns on the tail etc. Lace / Snakeskin - they have to be less than 75% lace or snakeskin on the body pattern. Eg metal laces or metal king cobra. Bi colour fishes cannot be filled in this class no matter what the percentage of both colours but more for tri or multi coloured. The list runs on.

We usually advise the competitors to seek clarification for the classes if unsure. Last minute change before bench in is still allowed but once benched in, it is final. There were cases that fishes were in the wrong class or did not clarify the fishes before entering the competition and got DQed.

Time for lunch ….

[R_F]

Thanks Derrick77 for the clarification and the comp videos for those of us who couldn't attend the event.

[Derrick77]

Originally Posted by R_F

Thanks Derrick77 for the clarification and the comp videos for those of us who couldn't attend the event.

Originally Posted by issacyeo

thanks for the headsup on the history of classification and the vids

You are welcome. If there are any doubts, I will try my best to answer them and they should withstand the scrutiny. The committee has done a good job and spent sometime debating on all the classes and why this and not that and why 70% and not 80% bi colour should have the silvery patch or distinct clear cut across to be a good tuxedo and so on and so forth to maintain good international competition standards.

But most of the old guards/gurus are not here to help answer the questions. I think some of them are still around but just pure reading like me for the past 4 years.

Thank you Derrick for the videos of the Champions.
Intented to go down to the event for a look but missed it as I have to finish my assignment for my school. Congrats to all winners anyway.

[jest1081]

Originally Posted by Derrick77

This leads to how we decide on albino topaz, albino HB blue or albino Moscow blue aka skyblue. The strains mentioned are those that lose their black pigments due to albinolism and we cannot field them in the grey eye class. We cannot physically see or judge them as hb blue or ¾ black or Moscow blue. It will not be fair playing field if they decide to enter as class 1 this time, class 2 next time or class 3 etc depending on where the chance of winning maybe higher. It is not appropriate for the “same physical” looking fish to be competing in 2 or 3 different classes. So the decision was to place them as their physical appearance like the albino red as solid colour non Moscow.

hi Derrick sorry but i dont quite understand the explanation.

i understand albinism causes the fish to lose black pigmentation. physically a blue topaz lack a full coverage, unlike the albino full reds, over the years there has been no indication any breeder successfully having an albino full blue topaz, so isnt it safe to say that the blond body and blue tail is actually a trait of the fish? if so i dont see a reason why it should not qualify as a bi color? when it is alreay physically expressing those traits to our naked eyes? infact sending a bi color fish to a solid color cat, should be rated as DQ. imho

Also, placing it under a solid color category will only cause it to lose precious points which we all know it can never ever attain. On my part that is not exactly fair for the fish, esp if one understands the difficulty of maintaining the strain itself let alone finding outlets to get it to attain a full coverage.

cheers and thanks for the explainations!

[trevally]

Originally Posted by jest1081

hi Derrick sorry but i dont quite understand the explanation.

i understand albinism causes the fish to lose black pigmentation. physically a blue topaz lack a full coverage, unlike the albino full reds, over the years there has been no indication any breeder successfully having an albino full blue topaz, so isnt it safe to say that the blond body and blue tail is actually a trait of the fish? if so i dont see a reason why it should not qualify as a bi color? when it is alreay physically expressing those traits to our naked eyes? infact sending a bi color fish to a solid color cat, should be rated as DQ. imho

Also, placing it under a solid color category will only cause it to lose precious points which we all know it can never ever attain. On my part that is not exactly fair for the fish, esp if one understands the difficulty of maintaining the strain itself let alone finding outlets to get it to attain a full coverage.

cheers and thanks for the explainations!

Hmmmm... but for bi-colour which I read from the singapore guppy judging standards by GCS, it wrote :

Bi Color : Must have two distinct colors with 25% of the secondary color.

The albino topaz only one colour with its body golden ? In that case can we classify albino golden red as bi-colour too ?