Arofanatics Fish Talk Forums  

Go Back   Arofanatics Fish Talk Forums > Arowana Forum > Arowana Discussion > Articles, Resources & FAQs

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-06-2005, 11:33 AM   #241
liquidnoise
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetduck
I do agree that the hbrtg may not be entirely pure. It maybe a hybrid, but we won't know for sure. However every now & then we see a rtg looking like a green. I've seen them & they were supposed to be called hybrid rtg. This could be the throw back we get in genetics & the offspring turned out looking like the other parent, which could be a green.

With this I could possibly offer another possible scenario. Farms may mix many different types of aros together to get them to breed. This tends to happen in farms that are not yet CITES registered or backyard breeders. To them as long as it breeds they can sell it & they can get their CITES breeding permit. Maybe that's how these green-rtg hybrids come about & also possibly the hbrtg.

As there is no real way to tell what genes the hbrtg carries, unless DNA testing is done. Maybe in the near future, with currently DNA work on aros we might be able to identify the ancestral mix of the hbrtg.
toking about RTG that looks like green. I think u have seen it with ur own eyes. hehehehe summore from a reputable farm.
toking abt backyard breeders. i think its wat always like to call proxy farming. i dun understand the word proxy. coz its quite different in computer language for proxy.
 
Old 09-06-2005, 11:35 AM   #242
aromatix
Dragon
 
aromatix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,330
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetduck
I do agree that the hbrtg may not be entirely pure. It maybe a hybrid, but we won't know for sure. However every now & then we see a rtg looking like a green. I've seen them & they were supposed to be called hybrid rtg. This could be the throw back we get in genetics & the offspring turned out looking like the other parent, which could be a green.

With this I could possibly offer another possible scenario. Farms may mix many different types of aros together to get them to breed. This tends to happen in farms that are not yet CITES registered or backyard breeders. To them as long as it breeds they can sell it & they can get their CITES breeding permit. Maybe that's how these green-rtg hybrids come about & also possibly the hbrtg.

As there is no real way to tell what genes the hbrtg carries, unless DNA testing is done. Maybe in the near future, with currently DNA work on aros we might be able to identify the ancestral mix of the hbrtg.
Yep, with DNA fingerprinting a lot can be told. if they take that further, then undesirable genetic traits (eg possibly Droopy Eye & PLJ) can be eliminated from brooding stocks.

But then there's the $$$ economics and enforcement. So long as consumers would like to gamble on TKLs, there'll also be Demand & hence, Supply
aromatix is offline  
Old 09-06-2005, 11:46 AM   #243
kagemaru
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aromatix
Yep, with DNA fingerprinting a lot can be told. if they take that further, then undesirable genetic traits (eg possibly Droopy Eye & PLJ) can be eliminated from brooding stocks.

But then there's the $$$ economics and enforcement. So long as consumers would like to gamble on TKLs, there'll also be Demand & hence, Supply
I guess with DNA fingerprinting it basically makes the whole pic more messy...wat if u see all the 1.5 red genes, rtg genes, greenie genes each constituting a part of the critical makeup of the DNA?

which one to eradicate and purify?...guess tats a mamonth task looking for errors is simple...rectifying them will take efforts and I mean a lot of efforts

Perhaps like our Doc have said...the genetics of aros may have evolved over time just like our traditional goldfish and kois...changes have been made to them either naturally or delibrately manipulated...how do we go around putting down wat constitutes "PURE" or "IMPURE"?
 
Old 09-06-2005, 01:44 PM   #244
jwhtan
Barney

 
jwhtan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,118
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetduck
I do agree that the hbrtg may not be entirely pure. It maybe a hybrid, but we won't know for sure. However every now & then we see a rtg looking like a green. I've seen them & they were supposed to be called hybrid rtg. This could be the throw back we get in genetics & the offspring turned out looking like the other parent, which could be a green.

With this I could possibly offer another possible scenario. Farms may mix many different types of aros together to get them to breed. This tends to happen in farms that are not yet CITES registered or backyard breeders. To them as long as it breeds they can sell it & they can get their CITES breeding permit. Maybe that's how these green-rtg hybrids come about & also possibly the hbrtg.

As there is no real way to tell what genes the hbrtg carries, unless DNA testing is done. Maybe in the near future, with currently DNA work on aros we might be able to identify the ancestral mix of the hbrtg.
tat's the whole point ... u've seen rtgs tat looked like greens too .. w/o the certainty of knowing exactly how the ancestral mix is, there's no way for anyone to be absolutely sure tat the HBRTG is a result of it having XB genes ... of cos, we can't say tat it is w/o XB genes as well .. however, for sure, there's no such breeding programme in the farms specifically to create this strain, not discounting the chance breeding scenario of cos.

but with regards to getting CITES, the farmer cannot do this mix breeding to get the CITES cert. Every parent tat's spawned has to be in AVA's books. If one has the cert but somehow its not in AVA's records, it's still not recognised and tat is a problem these farms are currently facing.
__________________
Retired. Offline.
For my friends only.
Need help call me directly.
jwhtan is offline  
Old 09-06-2005, 02:02 PM   #245
jwhtan
Barney

 
jwhtan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,118
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidnoise
toking about RTG that looks like green. I think u have seen it with ur own eyes. hehehehe summore from a reputable farm.
toking abt backyard breeders. i think its wat always like to call proxy farming. i dun understand the word proxy. coz its quite different in computer language for proxy.
proxy farming and backyard breeders are quite different.... we've a few members here who are into proxy farming ...

by backyard breeders, we usually meant those breeders w/o the CITES license and breed aros for sale, usually TKLs which regardless of parentage are all thrown into the same breeding pond, many of them with defects like one eye, no pectorals etc ... basically aros which have been discarded by their owners ... no QC and indiscriminate breeding

however, proxy farming is a term used for hobbyists who are interested in the breeding ... as owning a farm requires very high expenditure, the hobbyists then rent a pond in a properly registered CITES farm, place in his adult aros, and try to breed ... there are QC measures in place as every harvest means AVA has to be present and all aros are accordingly tagged.
__________________
Retired. Offline.
For my friends only.
Need help call me directly.
jwhtan is offline  
Old 09-06-2005, 04:29 PM   #246
liquidnoise
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhtan
proxy farming and backyard breeders are quite different.... we've a few members here who are into proxy farming ...

by backyard breeders, we usually meant those breeders w/o the CITES license and breed aros for sale, usually TKLs which regardless of parentage are all thrown into the same breeding pond, many of them with defects like one eye, no pectorals etc ... basically aros which have been discarded by their owners ... no QC and indiscriminate breeding

however, proxy farming is a term used for hobbyists who are interested in the breeding ... as owning a farm requires very high expenditure, the hobbyists then rent a pond in a properly registered CITES farm, place in his adult aros, and try to breed ... there are QC measures in place as every harvest means AVA has to be present and all aros are accordingly tagged.
thx for the answer. i understand now. so for proxy a few fellows can cum together to put their aro in? who keeps the fries? farm or owners?
 
Old 09-06-2005, 05:30 PM   #247
jwhtan
Barney

 
jwhtan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,118
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidnoise
thx for the answer. i understand now. so for proxy a few fellows can cum together to put their aro in? who keeps the fries? farm or owners?
tat's subject to the conditions discussed between the owners and the farms ...

it can be hobbyist put in the adults, farms provide pond and food .... fries 50/50

it can be hobbyist put in the adults, pay farms a monthly maintenance, depending on the price negotiated, hobbyist can take all fries or maybe 70/30 watever tat's agreed upon

all terms are negotiated individually between hobbyist and farm
__________________
Retired. Offline.
For my friends only.
Need help call me directly.
jwhtan is offline  
Old 09-06-2005, 08:16 PM   #248
aromatix
Dragon
 
aromatix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,330
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kagemaru
I guess with DNA fingerprinting it basically makes the whole pic more messy...wat if u see all the 1.5 red genes, rtg genes, greenie genes each constituting a part of the critical makeup of the DNA?

which one to eradicate and purify?...guess tats a mamonth task looking for errors is simple...rectifying them will take efforts and I mean a lot of efforts

Perhaps like our Doc have said...the genetics of aros may have evolved over time just like our traditional goldfish and kois...changes have been made to them either naturally or delibrately manipulated...how do we go around putting down wat constitutes "PURE" or "IMPURE"?
yep, to even get pure specimens of XB, RTG & RED for a DNA library is oredi mind-boggling, if not impossible today.
aromatix is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +9. The time now is 05:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2000-2008 Arofanatics.com (Since 30th August 2000)