When or Why do reds turn RED?

So, ALL REDs will eventually turns RED at certain age, envirnoment and period?

or, only some will turn bloody RED under the same condition?

Originally Posted by kimkuan

So, ALL REDs will eventually turns RED at certain age, envirnoment and period?

or, only some will turn bloody RED under the same condition?

wat is the ultimate red then?

I already mentioned above, red is a stage which it should achieve...if it doesnt we got to find out wats wrong, wats restricting it...tats the job of the owner IMO

mnay would not agree to this and probably we have heard alot about XX yrs to turn red, XX genes sure turn red....

problems I saw is even gd genes under wrong conditions will not show its colors...it probably will drop one stage below its max...and when we look at its potential, the max is not max out...hence we buy the red

Just like an investor sees an undervalued shares floating, the first action is to take up the stocks and wait for the surge only

[jwhtan]

Originally Posted by kimkuan

So, ALL REDs will eventually turns RED at certain age, envirnoment and period?

or, only some will turn bloody RED under the same condition?

not all will turn out bloody red .... the majority will have deep orange coloration under the right conditions .... there will, however, be some tat will remain yellowish and some on the other extreme tat will turn really red ....

Originally Posted by jwhtan

not all will turn out bloody red .... the majority will have deep orange coloration under the right conditions .... there will, however, be some tat will remain yellowish and some on the other extreme tat will turn really red ....

correct John,

there will not be 100% all blood red...but the qn again is Blood red the ultimate Red?...or issit the bright chilli red? or the famed Fire Red?

Wat is RED?

diff combinations of colors on scales will give diff effect...even towards the metal reds region, it becomes even more challenging

[fong]

Bro Kage,

You quote in your very first post "Even if aros are surface fish, it's still not much of a reason to be red to breed... if so, then the yellow reds will nvr find mates in a breeder's pond?" But later, you quoted "Sexually enhanced hormones are also excreted for color purpose...Personally I feels that adult reds on sexual maturity will tend to display a diff set of colors...esp during a particular season of the year" There seems to be a contradiction in this two statements you made.

You quoted "Evolution doesn't happen for aesthetic reasons to human in any animal." Evolution does happen for aesthetic reason. Bird of paradise is one good example. So do we as humans. We evolve too dont we? We are more attracted to people who are more symetrical dont we? Some animal evolves aesthetically... evolution has two purpose,for survival, and to pass on the better genes.

so when i first read your thread, immediately you got a 50% discount from me of your credibilty of your answers that follow because you didnt start if off well. I am not saying what you say is wrong or if i am right. But this is what i felt and it doesnt represent what the rest think. i am not bio trained so i didnt understand much of your terms used. But i learnt something new today.

Originally Posted by kagemaru

which part of the thread u dun understand?

the title?

the wording got problem? then it must be my lousy english..pls amend accordingly

Where does the color comes from?

Evolution so big a word...use also cannot explain...wats the point of using evolution> zebra strips got go away? afrikaans turn white when they scared?...does tat got to do with colors?

"When and Why" is exploring the reason for colors

Or u could call John direct to check with him wat he perceive the thread is...

Personally I do not wished to get this thread crashed again...For god's sake

I answered in red

Bro Kage,

You quote in your very first post "Even if aros are surface fish, it's still not much of a reason to be red to breed... if so, then the yellow reds will nvr find mates in a breeder's pond?"

this segment is quoted from one pm someone send to me...I just post the question here for discussion...tat bro pls see if I have misquote u in any manner?

But later, you quoted "Sexually enhanced hormones are also excreted for color purpose...Personally I feels that adult reds on sexual maturity will tend to display a diff set of colors...esp during a particular season of the year"

This is my answer to his query...is there a problem to be different?

There seems to be a contradiction in this two statements you made.

It has to be different...see above

You quoted "Evolution doesn't happen for aesthetic reasons to human in any animal." Evolution does happen for aesthetic reason. Bird of paradise is one good example. So do we as humans. We evolve too dont we? We are more attracted to people who are more symetrical dont we? Some animal evolves aesthetically... evolution has two purpose,for survival, and to pass on the better genes.

Humans evolved through the centuries or through the life time...make up ur mind...I dun want to comment on such a vague statement which leaves room fo u to manoeuvre...

so when i first read your thread, immediately you got a 50% discount from me of your credibilty of your answers that follow because you didnt start if off well. I am not saying what you say is wrong or if i am right.

So be it...its mutual...trust me...I have diff moodsets in answering to this post too

But this is what i felt and it doesnt represent what the rest think. i am not bio trained so i didnt understand much of your terms used. But i learnt something new today.

Neither am I trained in Bio, btw these info are not from Life Science if u are keen to find out...

I am financially trained by profession and I dun mince my words...neither do I back off when the resistance is tough...I shared these information to help educate those who want to learn...not those who want to oppose for the sake of opposing...u can read it with a pinch of salt...u can ignore it...I cannot be bothered if u like my post or not...Its not my duty to please u by the way...tats not my evolution

[Ronald]

Kage

Like u, I've ponder this query or myth abt reds for many years and have kept quite a few reds to find out, asked a number of 'experts', but frankly still no concrete answers. In the end, most fall back on genes.

Take a look at these few reds attached......all are grade 1 reds from Indonesia and all are > 5yrs old. Do you see Red No2 and Red No3 ever got the chance to attain the 'blood red' color of Red No1? I personally dun tink so......

[Panther]

Bro Kage,

Thanks for sharing. This is a very intriguing thread and an educational one as well. Answers….and more questions will and is in abundance. It’ll be up to us to research more into the science of colour development of fishes…

If my understanding is correct, what you are saying is that primarily, achieving the ‘ultimate’ kind of red (based on personal preference) is a play with the chromatophores which is what gives the pigmentation of the aro (in this case, reds). The display and variation of the chromatophores will vary with environmental changes like:

- water parameters (eg.PH, KH, minerals, trace elements, etc)
This will partially toggle the ratio of the 4 chromatophores exhibited by the red to give you yellow, orange or red.

- current flowrate
The stronger the flowrate, the fish may be more stressed as it has to constantly swim against the current. Am I right on this? This is the reason why aros in tanks with corner filters exhibit more reds than some in tanks with powerheads and sumps right?

- lighting
Tanning may not even be necessary coz it just represents environmental change where the fish feels more stressed with constant bright lights shining on it or in its eye, most time 24/7. Even if tanning is done, the color exhibited is only a reaction or reflex, thus it doesn’t matter if you ise TFC, MH, Nan or other forms or light. The effects probably would be a diff in the rate of burning of the base colour?

- tank size
The smaller the tank size and corresponding ratio of water causes the fish to react to a different type of stress as well. As long as the fish is not stress in the confined space, it may not mean that the bigger the tank is better. Thus having a small aro in a 6ft tank may cause it undue stress unless it is accustomed to it.

- tankmates
Similarly, if the aro feels threatened by it’s tankmates, the red may be deeper so as to reflect a defensive front as a form of natural protection. Thus the selection of tankmates is also important…to represent potential prey or potential threats to the aro.

I hope I’ve summarized the essence of what you are putting across. Have I left out anything? My question is then, how do we know the optimum balance of the four chromatophores and how to achieve it, since the rest of environmental changes are the easier parts that I guess most red aro owners are toying with.

Regards.
Lots more to learn.

Originally Posted by Ronald

Kage

Like u, I've ponder this query or myth abt reds for many years and have kept quite a few reds to find out, asked a number of 'experts', but frankly still no concrete answers. In the end, most fall back on genes.

Take a look at these few reds attached......all are grade 1 reds from Indonesia and all are > 5yrs old. Do you see Red No2 and Red No3 ever got the chance to attain the 'blood red' color of Red No1? I personally dun tink so......

no 3 keep inside WFGT for how long liao...seems like all body color drop into toilet...

no.2 is classic red...belongs to lower grade with a max potential of dark yellow to light orange the max...even after adjustments

No.1 when it took the first change to the red now?...3 yrs and below? or just turn red on 5th yr?

the color seems very intense already and thick coats of paint liao

no.3 probably got to recondition to get a grasp of wats the max potential...no.2 out...No.1 no need to comment la

[Ronald]

Originally Posted by kagemaru

no 3 keep inside WFGT for how long liao...seems like all body color drop into toilet...

no.2 is classic red...belongs to lower grade with a max potential of dark yellow to light orange the max...even after adjustments

No.1 when it took the first change to the red now?...3 yrs and below? or just turn red on 5th yr?

the color seems very intense already and thick coats of paint liao

no.3 probably got to recondition to get a grasp of wats the max potential...no.2 out...No.1 no need to comment la

This is the kind of thread tat I like to see in this forum....Bro.

To me Red No3 is out....it's likely a mixed breed, maybe 'cham' tio Grade 2 reds...

Wat in terst me is in your opinion, by adjusting environment, diet and all the other related factors, does Red No2 have a chance to become like Red No1?