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Old 20-06-2003, 12:14 AM   #41
acidburn
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Default pls help

i have cycled my tank and the daily tested ammonium level from sera test kit reads 0.5mg/l, while nitrite and nitrate is zero mg/l.

is this normal ?? coz sera test kit can only test ammonium and the amt of toxic ammonia is read fm the table corrosponding to the amt of ammonium and ph level.

whats the difference btwn mg/l and ppm?

Last edited by acidburn; 20-06-2003 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 20-06-2003, 05:09 AM   #42
Arrowana Boi
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Default Re: pls help

Quote:
Originally posted by acidburn
i have cycled my tank and the daily tested ammonium level from sera test kit reads 0.5mg/l, while nitrite and nitrate is zero mg/l.

is this normal ?? coz sera test kit can only test ammonium and the amt of toxic ammonia is read fm the table corrosponding to the amt of ammonium and ph level.

whats the difference btwn mg/l and ppm?
Hi, if u are very sure that ur tank has already been thoroughly cycled and u get this reading all the while then this reading indicates that either ur BB colony is still not large enuff or ur filter does not the capability to handle the bio load. Wait for a while and see if the level will drop after u have season the whole tank. Normally these residual readings are normal as the BB colony is still relatively new and not established/big enuff. By the way 0.5mg/l is still not too bad.

mg/l is the same as ppm (parts per million).

mg/l = milligram per litre, 1 milligram is 1/ 1 million, of a kg, and 1L = 1 kg. therefore 1mg = 1/ 1million, of a litre therefore 1 mg/l is the same as 1 part per million of either a litre or a kg.

Last edited by Arrowana Boi; 20-06-2003 at 05:16 AM.
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Old 21-06-2003, 02:45 AM   #43
Arrowana Boi
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Default Re: Re: Re: pls help

Quote:
Originally posted by acidburn
Thanks alot bro, for your knowledge. Hope that the ammonia level will drop to zero.

By the way 1 more question, the test kit which we are using actucally tested the amt of ammonium instead of ammonia in the tank right??

Then after getting the ammonimum value we will read the ammonia from the chart or table??

Am i right?? coz i am quite confused btwn ammonium and ammonia....... pls advice!!
ok i cut and paste an answer i had provided in one of the post like that u will be more clear about the difference. Ammomium and ammonia have different characteristic. Ammonia is poisonous and not acidic. Ammonium is not poisonous but is the main cause of pH dips. So if ammonium is too high be prepared for a pH dip. If ammonia is high, then its high toxicity.

enjoy :

..................................................

Actually its already been discussed in a link that bro ken_yg provided earlier on so i gather, i shant repeat the whole thing again but jus gave a general description and in less complicated terms too to prevent the other bros from having a hard time deciphering what's what. Those interested in the finer details might wanna look up that thread instead which has got tables and graphs for better explanation too.

Basically im very well aware of the increase in the toxicity level of ammonia in higher temperature and pH level. And im aware too of the presence of ammonium and ammonia as the two main forms of ammonia when dissolved in water. And ammonia is alkaline by nature and toxic while ammonium is acidic but harmless.

Noe that the main culprit of pH dips is during the whole nitrification process depleting those free ions. So all in all, it still sums up to an increase probability of a swing in pH level during an ammonia spike if u dont have coral chips in ur freshwater tank to act as a buffer for the extra ions to be used during the sudden increase of nitrification process. Thats also why i have repeatedly advise the use of coral chips in the tank to act as a buffer to prevent pH dips.

Actually the previous link that bro ken_yg posted has got an indepth explanation about the 2 different ammonia forms and their individual charecteristics under different condition too. Its quite a useful link with much explanations.

Well, ammonia spike certainly can occur while still maintaining a relatively high pH reading, and as i have said earlier on, its best to have dedicated ammonia tester to test for ammonia levels. But the difference is that the probability of a erratic pH readings is higher during an ammonia spike which will cause a sudden increase in need for those free ions. This is also why i explained that an all time pH or ammonia monitoring kit is the best bet.

But what i have wanted to stress on is that ammonia burnings plus pH swing (which may happen), can be fatal to the aro. Double impact imo. Thats why, even if we fail to prevent an ammonia spike, the least we can do is try to prevent a pH swing by having the coral chips act as a pH "maintaining" agent. U said that pH swings during an ammonia spike is purely coincidental due to the depletion of the free ions in the water, but we would really like to further reduce or totally eradicate even that slightest coincidental chance of a pH change. How do we do so? Add appropriate amount of coral chips. Simple as that

Plus, conditions in a marine tank is very different from freshwater tank. Marine tanks will have coral sand and etc which is required naturally in the first place, this already is sort of a buffer agent. But in a fresh water tank we will have to mimick that a little by adding in coral chips to act as the buffer.

But ur post is indeed good, indepth and informative. Im glad there are guys like u bros who are very willing to share with others.
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Old 24-06-2003, 06:30 AM   #44
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Default Unique problem...

Hi Aro Boi,

have read through this thread and am very impressed by the advice that you and other posters have left for fellow hobbyists. Great job!

Now to my unique problem. Went on a business trip for a couple weeks, so the fiancee helped with the water change. While she must be commended for her help, due to lack of expertise she washed out the canister filter (and materials) with tap water. Therefore my bb has been destroyed. Tank was previously cycled with no problems.

Current state: no major ammonia or nitrate spikes, yet... still have a sponge filter in the tank with cultivated bacteria. I have a very high bioload for a 120 gallon tank including:

14" jardini
2 large parrots (5-6")
3 large monos (4-5")
3 medium clown loaches (2-3")
1 small pleco (2")

how do i cycle the tank with so many fish safely and efficiently? also, I don't have anywhere to put my fish unless I'm desperate and have LFS babysit them. Water is now quite cloudy and looks like i have a tad of algae bloom (green tinge to water). I had done a massive water change when I got back and saw the problem, but now I understand that was not good and probably prolonged my tank's recovery.

So now I've got the filter up and running, added a start-up amount of store bought bb (Stress-zyme). Reduced feeding to small amount once a day (scared my Aro will take it out on tankmates, sigh). Changing water 10% every 2 days.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
 
Old 26-06-2003, 06:52 AM   #45
Arrowana Boi
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HI Kjam so sorry for the late reply. Kinda bz these few days.

Ok,, i would actually say that ur suggestion about the 10% water change on alternate days would be a good one. But what i would suggest is that u do this for a week, then reduce the change to 10% every 3 days for 2 weeks, then every 4 days for the next 2 weeks. Mean while, u might wanna transfer the sponge from that bubble filter to ur canister filter to spped u[ the process of BB cultivation in ur canister filter since that whould be ur main filtration unit and the sponge is the only thing with the most BB at this time.

From looking at ur livestock, the main contribution if the bioload would have been the jardinis , parrots and monos, but i guess they would not sky rocket the ammonia level that soon if u do 10% water change and the procedure thereafter.

Feel free to post any more queries yah
Good Luck
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Old 26-06-2003, 11:08 PM   #46
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Thanks for the advice. Am continuing with the program, but hope it won't take the full 6 weeks. Water isn't so bad, parameters have been maintained so the fish are safe, but I hate looking at cloudy water. I've reduced feeding to once a day, so hopefully that will help also until the bb are re-established to accept more waste.

Should I also continue adding Stress-zyme (bb in a bottle) once a week? I know there are a lot of different opinions on the board regarding this product.

Thanks again
 
Old 27-06-2003, 05:03 AM   #47
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I used to have Zeolite in my OHF, but took it out so I can cultivate some real BB. Now my filter is very bare, only has filter wool and ceramic rings. Am thinking of buying EHIEM's EHFISubstrate or bio balls to provide a habitat for BB cultivation.

3 questions:

1. Can using bio balls under the filter wool achieve the same results as using EHFISubstrate, since both serve the same purpose of encouraging BB growth?

2. If EHFISubstrate is used, from your advice I should put the ceramic rings before the EHFISubstrate and as such EHFISubstrate will be soaked in the water. Does EHFISubstrate have a requirement like bio balls to be "dripped" instead of soaked?

3. So I should not change water at all and wash the OHF or throw away the filter cotton until BB is formed??
 
Old 27-06-2003, 04:54 PM   #48
Arrowana Boi
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Quote:
Originally posted by KJam
Thanks for the advice. Am continuing with the program, but hope it won't take the full 6 weeks. Water isn't so bad, parameters have been maintained so the fish are safe, but I hate looking at cloudy water. I've reduced feeding to once a day, so hopefully that will help also until the bb are re-established to accept more waste.

Should I also continue adding Stress-zyme (bb in a bottle) once a week? I know there are a lot of different opinions on the board regarding this product.

Thanks again
Hi, i think u wont need the full 6 weeks imo since ur setup isnt a virgin one. As for cloudy water its really unavoidable during the cycling process. This is a good indication of BB cultivation. Lesser feeding is also a very good step that u have taken, and cleaning up the leftover will also be a good practice to prevent fouling the water.

As for the BB in a bottle, i am aware of its different opinion from many members. Personally, im indifferent. Since u already have it, use it. I myself use it too since my Dad bought a huge bottle of it and i think it would really be a waste to throw it away or jus leave it on the shelf. I havent notice any negative side effects or problems from using it this far.

Good luck
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Old 27-06-2003, 06:01 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arrowana Boi
P.s: I saw ur gallery and i think its not advisable to use so much coral chips in ur tank. High amount of coral chip usage is usual in cichlids setups. This coral chip might bring up the pH level too high.
Thanks for your advise! They all sound very logical to me. I'll get the EFHI Substrate when I have time these few days.

As for the tank in my gallery, it was actually for LH and cichlids, but the LH has since taken my cichlids out one by one. The last one I have is passed to my buddy for safe-keeping. So there's only a LH, a lobster and 2 snails in there for now.

I just got another tank for GF, and am more concerned with cycling this as GFs produces lots of bio waste. The LH tank has been around for a few months now, and is very stable. Clear water throughout...
 
Old 04-07-2003, 11:34 AM   #50
Nauzer
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sorry i may have missed earlier pages of this thread...but what do you guys think of introducing PNTs first, during the cycling of tanks?

First of all, they produce enormous amounts of ammonia and waste...
secondly, they are totally resistant to chlorine/ chloramine, ammonia spikes, drastic changes in ph levels, etc...as they breathe through their noses...

And then maybe after several days, begin to introduce fishes for testing the 'safety' of the water.

any opinions? thanks...

Arrowana Boi, this thread is extremely informative!
 
 


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