Have you noticed... and why?

[sm1ie]

I would think its because of increased metabolism after water changes.

[menthol28]

For me quite simply because they are scared, WC of 30% or more causes a chemical change in their norm environment and fishes can sense it , so maybe they sense dangers and scared, they poo... Natural reactions of some animals?

[AdamC]

Originally Posted by menthol28

For me quite simply because they are scared, WC of 30% or more causes a chemical change in their norm environment and fishes can sense it , so maybe they sense dangers and scared, they poo... Natural reactions of some animals?

I think you are on the right track...
In my opinion, there are 2 key reasons.
I will reveal the first. It is stress induced due to change of water parameters.
I will elaborate more in due time.
The second factor (combined with the first) would complete the whole picture.
Some might be skeptical but I have proven this and it is highly reproducible.
Now, I'm still waiting for bro LLC to give us his theory on osmotic regulation.

[LauLanChu]

I supposed during drastic water change of big vol fish would experience an osmotic imbalance (usually fresh water has lower osmotic pressure than the original), resulting an influx of water into fish body through gills, mouth and body. Due to this the fish natural reaction is to throw out water aggressively, resulting in shit and urine (you cannot see) being purge out.
In contrarary if you use a very heavy conc medium such as salt water e.g. during salt dip, you hardly see any shit because the fish would 'drink' water due to loss of water to surrounding.

[AdamC]

Thanks for the scientific explanation bro LLC. I understand what you mean.
Now allow me to throw you a curve ball, for the sake of discussion.
From practical experience, say you fill a small 10L tank with water from the large 250L tank where a fish (not monster fish) was happily swimming inside. Then you carefully transfer the fish to the small 10L tank either by net or hand. More often than not, the fish will poo within minutes. In theory, there's very minimal or no change in water parameters and so there shouldn't be any osmotic effect.
Now why does the fish poo? I'm sure you have experienced this first hand.

[Nomis]

Very educational subject ... Thanks TS and LLC.

Can start also explaining others like why they losses colour or how to make them in full colouration (eg red aro), how to make them spawn readily etc etc will also be good.

Thumps up to you


Simon

[AdamC]

Originally Posted by Nomis

Very educational subject ... Thanks TS and LLC.

Can start also explaining others like why they losses colour or how to make them in full colouration (eg red aro), how to make them spawn readily etc etc will also be good.

Thumps up to you


Simon

We are here to share best practices, exchange experience, opinions, information, and sometimes, "kepoh" a bit, all for the common cause of enjoying the hobby of fish keeping.
I must add that understanding the basics and why, is essential to successful fish keeping. For new hobbyists as I once was, we find various species of the aquatic animals appealing and attractive and therefore, we buy a tank, FGT, filtration systems, decos, etc., then fill water, set up the system and add fish. But in a short period of time, we encounter many issues like fish falling ill, going belly up, and the list goes on. This, I believe, it's due to the lack of understanding of water chemistry and the required scheduled maintenance of the hobby itself.
As an example, my wife asked me why I do regular WC when it is crystal clear and sparking clean. The answer is simple, filtration gives us a false sense of water quality. The water may look crystal clear but this doesn't mean there's no dissolved pollutants and microscopic organism in the water, which is invisible to our naked eye. Regular WC is still a must to refresh the recycled water in an enclosed system. She now understands and is supportive of the efforts.
Lastly, I would like to share two pieces of golden advice I have picked up by browsing through forums.
1. Prevention (of illness) is far better than attempting to cure with various over the counter chemical based meds. I have a stock pile of meds but I have decided to discard most if not all of them. Use natural remedy like aquarium salt, garlic juice to help the fish in battling illness. Allow the fish's immune system to do the job. Meds will do more harm than good.
2. Take care of the water and the water will take care of your fish.

It takes a bit of effort on our part but it's a rewarding hobby! Happy Fish Keeping to all fellow hobbyists! Cheers.

[wmh]

Originally Posted by AdamC

We are here to share best practices, exchange experience, opinions, information, and sometimes, "kepoh" a bit, all for the common cause of enjoying the hobby of fish keeping.
I must add that understanding the basics and why, is essential to successful fish keeping. For new hobbyists as I once was, we find various species of the aquatic animals appealing and attractive and therefore, we buy a tank, FGT, filtration systems, decos, etc., then fill water, set up the system and add fish. But in a short period of time, we encounter many issues like fish falling ill, going belly up, and the list goes on. This, I believe, it's due to the lack of understanding of water chemistry and the required scheduled maintenance of the hobby itself.
As an example, my wife asked me why I do regular WC when it is crystal clear and sparking clean. The answer is simple, filtration gives us a false sense of water quality. The water may look crystal clear but this doesn't mean there's no dissolved pollutants and microscopic organism in the water, which is invisible to our naked eye. Regular WC is still a must to refresh the recycled water in an enclosed system. She now understands and is supportive of the efforts.
Lastly, I would like to share two pieces of golden advice I have picked up by browsing through forums.
1. Prevention (of illness) is far better than attempting to cure with various over the counter chemical based meds. I have a stock pile of meds but I have decided to discard most if not all of them. Use natural remedy like aquarium salt, garlic juice to help the fish in battling illness. Allow the fish's immune system to do the job. Meds will do more harm than good.
2. Take care of the water and the water will take care of your fish.

It takes a bit of effort on our part but it's a rewarding hobby! Happy Fish Keeping to all fellow hobbyists! Cheers.

very good explanation from TS...but can enlighten me on how the garlic juice help to battling illness? Or how it used as prevention? Thanks

[LauLanChu]

AdamC,
I cannot answer what you claimed as I have not noticed that. Probably is a matter of conspicious just like we notice pooing more obvious when a fish is put in small container. If it is so simple as a stress factor trigger pooing then by catching up the fish and releasing back the fish to the same tank should cause pooing, or fish get harrassed by other fish will cause the fish to 'laosai'.

To add on I personally feel that though we are here to learn and share, we got to be aware that we cannot apply one fish type experience to another different fish type, as all the fish type are different. Monsters, aro, koi, goldfish, luohan.....all needs different upkeep for them to thrive. Until we have experience in all types of fish then we can advise, else you may cause more harm than good. Take for example the use of anti chlorine which is always a topic of discussion. I have seen hobbyist never use anti cholorine during water change and his fish still okay, and I have seen people only use anti chlorine crystal and his fish still doing very well, and some even going to extend of going to the very good anti cholorine but he still have casualty during water change. What is the problem? Is the fish type they keep which they forget to discuss about.

We are in general forum.

[AdamC]

Originally Posted by wmh

very good explanation from TS...but can enlighten me on how the garlic juice help to battling illness? Or how it used as prevention? Thanks

Ok, use of garlic juice as natural remedy...
I came across an article by a very experienced hobbyist from Taiwan.
The use of garlic goes back thousands of years, as in TCM.
As we know, garlic has strong anti-bacteria and healing properties. I'll skip the "technical" part as I'm not an expert in TCM.
For application and dosage, preparation takes a bit of work. You need to extract the juice from raw garlic. To apply, there are two methods, pour the juice to hospital tank at 0.1-0.3%, to start. This means 2-3ml per liter. Or, you can soak your fish food in pure garlic juice for several minutes before feeding them to your fish. This is provided your fish will eat.
Personally, I have not tried the garlic remedy. But it is definitely an option or alternative to chemical based meds. As with chemical based meds, it might be successful in killing the parasites or bacteria but will cause serious harm to your already weakened fish. Generally, the recovery rate is slow and they will easily succumbed to secondary infection or illnesses. Just my personal opnion.