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Old 04-02-2007, 11:15 AM   #21
elimmel
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Originally Posted by Barra21 View Post
Ha bro elimmel,

let me explain the concept the way i see it. the purpose for cycling without plants actually the same as other normal tanks.

When its first set up, ammonia spike, nitrate spike, basically every spike could and most likely will happen as all ur BB (benificial bacteria) namely your nitrosomonas and nitrobacter bacteria havent colonised your filter media and substrate. so there are 2 options to take depending on landscape.

1) First option - Dun bother so much and wack hell loads of plants in there at once. Lights will be turned on. This method works where you want a jungle in ur tank. It works because the huge volume of plants take in all the ammonia, nitrates etc before the algae can get to the nutrients. But the key to this is plant like crazy.

2)Second option is where you want to do proper landscaping. eg in my case i chose a zen landscape where lesser plants are used in strategic locations according to landscape planning. Lights will be off and no planting will take place for a mth.

Imagine this. Lets say i have 100 ppm of ammonia and 100 ppm of nitrates in my tank. I on the lights And because of this landscape i have, my small volume of plants can only take up 20 ppm of each nutrients. Whats gona happen then? 100ppm - 20 ppm= 80 ppm
Green algae, hair algae. all the green monsters will come haunt u and its definately no easy task getting rid of them. this is cause the BB havent formed or stabalised so ur 80ppm remaining nutrients will be like a buffet for the algae.
Also, for this 2nd method, no lights will be turned on so that the algae has little chance to grow. and my BB will be growing exponentially by the day. After a mth when its done cycling i'll start the planting process. This also give me time to think of my landscape.

So like i have mentioned in my previous post, it all depends on what you are going to do with ur landscape and diff bros methods. Both methods will work if u know what ur after.

Hope this helps all the bros doing their cycling.
bro, having high nitrates don't give you algae.
if you have high ammonia, the tank is either not cycled or you have inadequate biomedia.
having ammonia and light gives you algae if you don't have anything to soak up the ammonia or convert it to something else.

be it having a "jungle" or a zen scape, planting from the beginning is the way to go.

btw, planting heavily doesn't mean it's a jungle "theme". it means putting in more plants. not wait for some plants to grow and then cut to replant somewhere else to cover the footprint.

who says you can't aquascape from the beginning with massive planting? it takes careful planning on the scape you want and the plants to use in the right places. all these is done before the tank is setup, not thinking about it when the tank is cycling.

planting from the beginning with lights & nutrients (co2 & fert dosing) will let your plants get established faster and be part of the tank's biofiltration.

if you are going to cycle bare for 1 mth then add plants, you are probably going to face these problems;

1. mentioned earlier, base fert leach
2. mentioned earlier, mini cycle due to addition of livestock which the established bb might not be able to handle with the plants still not established
3. as some fert or gravel (eg ADA) contains ammonia, planting might cause a small spike in ammonia which is enough to trigger algae
4. some plants tend to melt during acclimitization. this will contribute to ammonia

why wait another 3-4 weeks for the plants to get established and tank to settle down again?

doing a zen scape doesn't mean you cannot go full throttle from the beginning. you only need to ensure that there is no nutrient deficiency for the amount of light you intend to use for the tank.
higher light means higher intake of nutrients to drive the plant growth, namely co2.

having lights on during bare tank cycling gives you green water?
it's because the ammonia is not converted fast enough by your unestablished bacteria colony to nitrite then nitrate (duh, of course not since still cycling). the ammonia present coupled with the light is then fed on by the algae spores to trigger greenwater.
with plants, the ammonia will be the first thing they go for as the nitrogen source. so no chance of greenwater occuring.

note that there are always algae spores in the water (even from tap) waiting for a trigger event to happen. having healthy growing plants in the tank will prevent that trigger event from happening.

to complicated or hassle? go low tech with low light.

and again i say... why call it a planted tank when no planting is done when setting up??

but then again, like you said, to each his own. just remember to learn from experience and don't be afraid to try new things.
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Old 04-02-2007, 10:03 PM   #22
wilsonawt
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bros, is this process the same if i rescape my tank? drain till 1/4 water and start planting again?
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Old 04-02-2007, 11:33 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by wilsonawt View Post
bros, is this process the same if i rescape my tank? drain till 1/4 water and start planting again?
for rescaping, remove and replant without draining water.
after you finish the rescape, then do the large water change ard 30% .
this will take care of fert leach and nasties dug up from susbtrate during rescape
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Old 05-02-2007, 08:52 AM   #24
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What about if you move house? How do you start the cycling process? Should you reuse the soil? Go half-half? Meaning use old and new. Or go totally new.
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Old 05-02-2007, 12:56 PM   #25
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What about if you move house? How do you start the cycling process? Should you reuse the soil? Go half-half? Meaning use old and new. Or go totally new.
try to catch the fishes out and pack with tank water.
drain as much water as possible but keep about 50% of the tank water in a big tub for re-use.

then make it a fast move.
singapore is small so moving and resetting up at new place shouldn't be more than a couple of hours.

at new place, setup tank and slowly pour back the old tank water you saved.
then top up with freshwater treated water (anti-chlorine/chloramine).
the add the fishes back like you would if newly bought, i.e. float bag etc etc.

there will be some bb die off and bacterial bloom causing cloudy water.
you can get bottled bacteria to speed up the bacteria colonisation or just leave things us it is. with healthy plants, everything should be back to normal within days.

note that you might want to use a spray bottle to spray water at the plants to keep them moist during transportation.

actually if done fast, it would seem like a major maintenance with a large water change.
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Old 05-02-2007, 02:57 PM   #26
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Thanks, makes sense.
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Old 05-02-2007, 03:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elimmel View Post
try to catch the fishes out and pack with tank water.
drain as much water as possible but keep about 50% of the tank water in a big tub for re-use.

then make it a fast move.
singapore is small so moving and resetting up at new place shouldn't be more than a couple of hours.

at new place, setup tank and slowly pour back the old tank water you saved.
then top up with freshwater treated water (anti-chlorine/chloramine).
the add the fishes back like you would if newly bought, i.e. float bag etc etc.

there will be some bb die off and bacterial bloom causing cloudy water.
you can get bottled bacteria to speed up the bacteria colonisation or just leave things us it is. with healthy plants, everything should be back to normal within days.

note that you might want to use a spray bottle to spray water at the plants to keep them moist during transportation.

actually if done fast, it would seem like a major maintenance with a large water change.
agreed..there will be some bb die off and bacterial bloom causing cloudy water
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Old 05-02-2007, 10:32 PM   #28
ah_hong84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elimmel View Post
try to catch the fishes out and pack with tank water.
drain as much water as possible but keep about 50% of the tank water in a big tub for re-use.

then make it a fast move.
singapore is small so moving and resetting up at new place shouldn't be more than a couple of hours.

at new place, setup tank and slowly pour back the old tank water you saved.
then top up with freshwater treated water (anti-chlorine/chloramine).
the add the fishes back like you would if newly bought, i.e. float bag etc etc.

there will be some bb die off and bacterial bloom causing cloudy water.
you can get bottled bacteria to speed up the bacteria colonisation or just leave things us it is. with healthy plants, everything should be back to normal within days.

note that you might want to use a spray bottle to spray water at the plants to keep them moist during transportation.

actually if done fast, it would seem like a major maintenance with a large water change.
Hahaa, yar. Actually the major problem is how are you going to store and transport such a big volume of water. Not easy to fund such big "bottle" unless you know people from the industry who are selling them.
If not, pack them in many many coca cola bottle??
Hahaa
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Old 06-02-2007, 12:05 PM   #29
elimmel
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Originally Posted by ah_hong84 View Post
Hahaa, yar. Actually the major problem is how are you going to store and transport such a big volume of water. Not easy to fund such big "bottle" unless you know people from the industry who are selling them.
If not, pack them in many many coca cola bottle??
Hahaa
haha, you'll be surprised what we will do for this hobby
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Old 06-02-2007, 05:54 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by elimmel View Post
haha, you'll be surprised what we will do for this hobby
Hahaa, bro I 100% agree with you, anyone into aquatic will come out with weird method in order to get the tank up swee swee. Me too!!
I suppose aquatic keeping makes us more creative and innovative.
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